--- Log opened Tue Jul 01 00:00:08 2008 --- Day changed Tue Jul 01 2008 00:00 -!- Wombert [n=Wombert@dslb-088-066-187-125.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [] 00:02 < erisco> hey, what is the point of the modpub directory? 00:02 < erisco> and huomenta daveFre 00:02 < daveFre> images/css/js 00:05 < daveFre> Some of my co-workers and I were messing with eclipse and thought it would be interesting to have a plugin that would make the use of agavi simple. Make it like Visual studio and ASP.NET 00:07 < daveFre> Are there any plans out there to create an integration with an existing IDE 00:07 < daveFre> ? 00:18 -!- daveFre [n=tom-jone@ip98-168-139-121.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [] 00:20 -!- stachu [i=sayonara@enc170.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 00:36 < erisco> I am trying to get the rewriting working (what a pain) 00:37 < erisco> when I go to http://localhost/project/pub/ everything works fine. when I go to http://localhost/project/pub/foo all the links break 00:37 < erisco> looking at the generated base href it changed from http://localhost/project/pub/ to http://localhost/ 00:37 < erisco> why? and how do I fix this? 00:49 < erisco> is there anywhere in a config where you can specify the basehref? 01:20 -!- shoan [n=shoan@59.92.197.35] has joined #agavi 01:31 -!- erisco [n=erisco@brisco.kent.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:49 -!- shoan_ [n=shoan@59.92.193.147] has joined #agavi 01:59 -!- shoan [n=shoan@59.92.197.35] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:21 -!- jwage [n=jwage@c-98-193-184-47.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [] 02:27 -!- jwage [n=jwage@c-98-193-184-47.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #agavi 02:29 -!- zkv [n=kiryl@87.252.235.129] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:40 -!- jwage [n=jwage@c-98-193-184-47.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [] 04:01 -!- shoan_ [n=shoan@59.92.193.147] has quit [] 04:14 -!- jwage [n=jwage@c-98-193-184-47.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #agavi 04:32 < v-dogg> huomenta 04:34 -!- Arme[0] is now known as Arme[N] 04:36 -!- jwage [n=jwage@c-98-193-184-47.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit ["jonwage@gmail.com"] 05:01 -!- _cheerios [n=goodrobo@dsl-hkibrasgw3-fe74fb00-140.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #agavi 05:06 -!- Arme[N] [n=Arme[N]@unaffiliated/armen/x-394205] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:11 -!- shoan [n=shoan@59.92.193.147] has joined #agavi 05:13 < _cheerios> huomenta 05:15 -!- Arme[N] [n=Arme[N]@unaffiliated/armen/x-394205] has joined #agavi 06:12 -!- Wombert [n=Wombert@dslb-088-066-187-125.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #agavi 06:24 -!- Rendez [n=Rendez@180.Red-80-38-116.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #agavi 06:55 -!- Wombert [n=Wombert@dslb-088-066-187-125.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [] 07:03 < _cheerios> http://blog.adaniels.nl/articles/how-i-php-using-defaults-for-input-arguments/ 07:05 -!- MerlinDMC [n=MerlinDM@p578b1081.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #agavi 07:19 -!- Rendez [n=Rendez@180.Red-80-38-116.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [] 07:32 -!- Rendez [n=Rendez@180.Red-80-38-116.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #agavi 07:38 -!- Netsplit kornbluth.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: Spica 07:38 < E_mE> huomenta! 07:38 -!- Netsplit over, joins: Spica 07:44 < marklar|omni> zomg 07:44 < marklar|omni> d700 announced 07:47 -!- stachu [i=sayonara@enc170.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #agavi 07:47 -!- stachu [i=sayonara@enc170.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Client Quit] 07:51 < _cheerios> a mere $3000? :) 07:52 < marklar|omni> for a ff d3 equiv? 07:52 < marklar|omni> thats cheap 07:52 < marklar|omni> and I'm a canon guy 07:52 < marklar|omni> heh 07:52 < marklar|omni> anyway, want. :( 07:53 < marklar|omni> weird part is the builtin flash 07:55 < _cheerios> http://imaging.nikon.com/products/imaging/lineup/digitalcamera/slr/d700/sample.htm 07:55 < _cheerios> that's nice detail, checking the originals 07:55 < marklar|omni> url is bork for me 07:55 < marklar|omni> ah there 07:55 < marklar|omni> why does the pagetitle say "d300 sample images" 07:56 < marklar|omni> template copypasta :< 07:57 < _cheerios> starting to see too much hair on the human face at this res :D:D 07:57 < marklar|omni> yea, heh 07:58 < marklar|omni> I liked the focus in the park pic 07:59 < marklar|omni> tilt indicator ftw 08:00 -!- Wombert [n=Wombert@munich.bitxtender.net] has joined #agavi 08:03 < impl> MikeSeth: branch kthx 08:04 < impl> MikeSeth: and yes :> 08:19 < MikeSeth> impl: oh hai 08:19 < MikeSeth> also huomental minna-san 08:20 < MikeSeth> impl: it would be nice to split the build file into a number of included files 08:20 < MikeSeth> impl: also the top level tasks should be broken apart into basic and advanced 08:20 < MikeSeth> you don't want people to do ``agavi help'' and get thirty foo-bar-cat-fish type instructions 08:22 < E_mE> break it up into sub-helps id say 08:23 < E_mE> so agavi help module shows all sub options? 08:24 < Wombert> omnom 08:24 < Wombert> yeah sounds like a good idea E_mE 08:25 < impl> MikeSeth: basic and advanced? 08:25 < impl> MikeSeth: it depends on whether I can get phing to behave 08:25 < impl> it doesn't like it when I separate things 08:26 < E_mE> thanks Wombert :) 08:26 < impl> E_mE: it's not feasible because phing takes all arguments as separate targets 08:27 < impl> although I guess the frontend could override that behavior ... somehow, maybe : 08:27 < impl> :\ 08:27 < Wombert> yeah lame phin 08:27 < Wombert> was thinking the same impl 08:27 < Wombert> but that would be ugly hax rite? 08:27 < impl> It's already ugly hax 08:28 < MikeSeth> frankly 08:28 < MikeSeth> phing is just bad :> 08:29 < impl> http://xomios.transtruct.org/hg/file/6e633a44d57a/util/conductor/ http://xomios.transtruct.org/hg/file/6e633a44d57a/build.conduct 08:29 < impl> :< 08:29 < v-dogg> should we drop it? phing is not bad for build scripts but what we need is somewhat complex UI logic 08:30 < impl> v-dogg: the problem, of course, is that we need something to replace it with 08:30 < impl> and also that I don't feel like rewriting this stuff really 08:30 < MikeSeth> yeah the new buildscript > old buildscript 08:30 < MikeSeth> impl: the whole of it is in build.xml now right? 08:31 < impl> MikeSeth: yeah 08:32 < v-dogg> what about a separate frontend (written in php)? 08:32 < impl> that does what? :s 08:33 < v-dogg> which would utilize existing phing stuff but with better UI 08:34 < impl> yuck :( 08:34 < MikeSeth> v-dogg: the idea of PHP UI for CLI/GUI freaks me out 08:34 < MikeSeth> srsly 08:34 < E_mE> v-dogg: like a PHP entry script which calls phing scripts? 08:34 < v-dogg> E_mE: yes 08:35 < E_mE> but the php enttry srcript can be customised to agavi specs 08:35 < impl> it's not pretty to do that 08:35 < MikeSeth> no it aint 08:35 < MikeSeth> heh 08:35 < E_mE> :) 08:36 < v-dogg> of course it's not but like said, phing doesn't handle modularity too well 08:36 < v-dogg> nor UI 08:37 < v-dogg> MikeSeth: what would you suggest? I don't think we want anymore dependencies so PHP (+bat/sh) is all we have IMO 08:39 < v-dogg> impl: I realize it might be too late for this discussion and I'm truly sorry I haven't had the time to participate earlier :( 08:40 < impl> well 08:40 < impl> mh 08:40 < impl> I mean, I'm not opposed to dropping it and making it better, but I need something to replace it with 08:40 < v-dogg> yup 08:41 < v-dogg> and all options suck :) 08:41 < impl> OTOH, I added some nice features that allows you to have automatically-imported project-specific build.xml files as well as the ability to add listeners (in build.xml) that can wait for changes on targets, tasks, and output messages 08:43 < impl> maybe that's sufficient, dunno 08:53 * Wombert shudders 08:53 < Wombert> srsly 08:53 < Wombert> the new one 08:53 < Wombert> > old one 08:53 < Wombert> impl just rewrote it :p 08:53 < Wombert> I think it's a vast improvement over what we have atm 08:54 < marklar|omni> needs more cowbell 08:55 < impl> D: 08:55 < MikeSeth> v-dogg: I say stick with the command line interface for 1.0 08:56 < MikeSeth> the buildfile itself can be cut up into parts 08:56 < MikeSeth> other than this no problem imo 08:56 < impl> only if phing allows me to do this 08:57 < impl> maybe, ideally, in the future we have the entire thing done as an Agavi application 08:57 < MikeSeth> (though srsly I hate Propel style tasks like project-defenestrate-leverage-synergy etc) 08:57 < impl> that would be neat 08:58 < impl> then we could have a Web interface for managing projects too and stuff 08:58 < v-dogg> MikeSeth: and the php frontend I talked about would be just that - a command line interface for phing scripts. and in the future we/someone could write whatever interfaces for those scripts 08:58 < MikeSeth> impl: could be a module in the stock app 08:58 < MikeSeth> v-dogg: yeah, possible, though I am not sure php is the best platform for this kind of task 08:59 < impl> MikeSeth: I dunno, don't really want to mix that with real user-code I don't think 08:59 < v-dogg> it's definitely not the best option but what other options do we have? 09:01 < impl> I think we will see how this one goes and if it doesn't work well for the end-users, we'll deal with it then 09:20 -!- stachu [i=sayonara@enc170.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #agavi 09:22 < Wombert> +1 09:22 < Wombert> commit commit commit :> 09:22 < MikeSeth> wat 09:24 < impl> it isn't done yet :< 09:24 < v-dogg> stachu: you asked something yesterday but left before I got to answer. what did you ask?-) 09:25 < v-dogg> ah, APC 09:26 < v-dogg> 20:01 < stachu> could you tell me something about it, how to use it, what cache?\ etc\ 09:27 < v-dogg> you install and configure it (installation help can be found from the source tar ball)) 09:28 < CIA-5> david * r2548 /branches/0.11/ (CHANGELOG src/exception/templates/shiny.php): Fixed #791: Markup is escaped by accident in shiny exception template 09:34 < Wombert> guys 09:34 < Wombert> in exception pages 09:34 < Wombert> I just fixed it so that it will show the throw new ... line at the top 09:34 < Wombert> always 09:34 < Wombert> now the question is 09:35 < Wombert> should it show the second entry by default? 09:35 < Wombert> that's more useful than the throw... part, right? 09:37 * Wombert pokes v-dogg and MikeSeth 09:43 -!- kaos|work_ [n=dominik@munich.bitxtender.net] has joined #agavi 09:44 * ttj pokes Wombert 09:44 < CIA-5> david * r2549 /branches/0.11/ (3 files in 2 dirs): Fix #790: Exception templates incorrectly fix information about exception origin 09:44 < Wombert> ohai ttj 09:44 < Wombert> sup 09:44 < ttj> Not much, but I demand coffee mugs! :P 09:44 < ttj> You? 09:46 < impl> MUGS :O 09:49 < MikeSeth> http://www.reddit.com/info/6pllz/comments/c04j9zp 09:50 < impl> kekeke 09:50 < stachu> v-dogg: so apc will just speed up my app (includes will work faster), and these functions in manual are only add-ons? 09:51 < stachu> im using agavi cache and my first thought was that i have to rewrite this cache system to support these functions 09:52 < impl> http://www.lolcatbible.com/index.php?title=Lolhymns#Amazing_Grace 09:52 < impl> this is awesome 09:53 < CIA-5> david * r2550 /trunk/ (24 files in 15 dirs): merge [2519:2549/branches/0.11] 10:01 < CIA-5> david * r2551 /trunk/tests2/ (3 files in 2 dirs): fixed tests 10:07 < CIA-5> david * r2552 /branches/impl-build_system/ (25 files in 16 dirs): merge [2513:2551/trunk] 10:08 < CIA-5> david * r2553 /branches/david-xml_only_config_system/ (25 files in 16 dirs): merge [2512:2551/trunk] 10:09 < CIA-5> david * r2554 /branches/david-system_action_refactoring/ (25 files in 16 dirs): merge [2514#:2551/trunk] 10:10 < CIA-5> david * r2555 /branches/david-stampede_protection/ (25 files in 16 dirs): merge [2511:2549/branches/0.11] 10:11 < Wombert> I'm in ur branchez syncing your codez kthx 10:12 < impl> ohai thx 10:14 < Wombert> so 10:14 < Wombert> who tested rc1 yet 10:14 * Wombert smacks MikeSeth 10:14 * Wombert smacks v-dogg 10:14 * Wombert smacks marklar|omni 10:14 * Wombert smacks ttj 10:14 * Wombert smacks E_mE 10:14 * ttj dodges. 10:15 < E_mE> ill test it this evening with dnbnoize Wombert :) promise :) 10:15 < E_mE> not had much time sorry :'( 10:15 < MerlinDMC> Wombert, played with it at the WE ... but not very komplex cases :P 10:16 < Wombert> mostly concerned about people on 0.11.1... just to be sure 0.11.2 doesn't break anything 10:20 < _cheerios> moved to 0.11/r2547 earlier today, nothing came up (bar app/cache required manual cleanup). 10:21 < _cheerios> iow, the usual. 10:22 < Wombert> :> 10:24 -!- LBO_ [i=d4a06aa0@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-7d8b850df47e9d78] has joined #agavi 10:24 < LBO_> huomenta 10:24 < E_mE> oh today will be ny first attempt at merging in svn... oh the worrys :) 10:24 < LBO_> how Agavi works when "use_routing" is off? 10:25 < Wombert> what do you want to do, LBO_ 10:25 < LBO_> is it just rewrite off? 10:25 < LBO_> nothing, I just want to know :D 10:25 < impl> ?module=Foo&action=Bar¶m1=baz¶m2=quux 10:25 < Wombert> the rewrite is just for removing index.php 10:26 < LBO_> thank u 10:27 < LBO_> how can i generate url then? 10:27 < LBO_> hardcode? or pass an array of module, action and params? 10:27 < LBO_> to $ro-gen? 10:28 < Wombert> no it still generates a url for you 10:28 < Wombert> you can still have a routing.xml with normal urls 10:29 < Wombert> but that's all lame 10:29 < Wombert> do not use it 10:29 < LBO_> no no, I wont... its just nice to know things like that 10:30 < Wombert> its a useless feature. really :> 10:33 < LBO_> I was curious 10:37 < LBO_> architecture of SecurityRbacUser is great :) 10:37 < LBO_> it was too easy to plug-in reading credentials from database 10:37 < LBO_> adding credentials* 10:39 < LBO_> and roles too.... 10:40 < LBO_> now my security user uses read its roles and additional credentails (like blog.post.update.{someidentifier}) from DB 10:40 < LBO_> and it works perfect 10:41 < impl> awesome :D 10:41 < LBO_> i mean, building things lik that in fws like cake, CI was messy 10:41 < v-dogg> Wombert: upgraded a project I'm working on yesterday 10:41 < v-dogg> no issues so far 10:41 < LBO_> impl: :P 10:43 -!- Flukey [n=jhall@80.4.120.163] has joined #agavi 10:43 < Flukey> hey folks 10:43 < LBO_> i was wondering.. i found some task (google summer code) about building scafolding 10:44 < LBO_> how do u want to ahieve that if models are independent from their implementation (service, db) 10:45 < v-dogg> stachu: (sorry for the delayed answer) yup, apc is normally completely transparent. it caches and uses the "compiled" php code automatically 10:49 < v-dogg> Wombert: and another thing, I realized that autoload.xml is (of course) parsed after config.php so I can put AgaviConfig::set('my.components_path',...); in there and use that in my external autoload.xml (which is included via xinclude) 10:49 < v-dogg> so cool :) 10:52 < Wombert> uh yeah 10:52 < Wombert> I said so yesterday :D 10:52 < Wombert> but I thought you didn't like that or something 10:53 < v-dogg> you did? sorry mate, I missed that :) 10:53 < Wombert> oh 10:53 < Wombert> I didn't 10:53 < Wombert> I just thought it 10:53 < Wombert> :> 10:53 < v-dogg> heh 10:54 * Wombert pets 10:54 < v-dogg> I want a blogging solutions that doesn't make my head hurt (and more time to actually write stuff) :/ 10:55 < v-dogg> MikeSeth: when will you write tequila ;) 10:56 < E_mE> biiiii 10:57 < marklar|omni> ohai2u 10:58 < CIA-5> david * r2556 /branches/david-system_action_refactoring/src/ (3 files in 2 dirs): refactoring part 1: set info into container attributes for some internal forwards, check for core.available in AgaviController::dispatch(), not AgaviExecutionContainer::execute(), refs #769 10:59 < Wombert> lunch 10:59 * Wombert & 10:59 -!- Wombert [n=Wombert@munich.bitxtender.net] has quit ["bai"] 10:59 < stachu> so what is better eAccelerator or apc? 11:00 < marklar|omni> Tomeika Broussard thought it was so absurd when she overheard her supervisor refer to her as a "reggin" that she just laughed. Then she realized it was the n-word spelled backward 11:00 < marklar|omni> haaha 11:03 < v-dogg> stachu: APC used to be more stable (I hear). not sure what the situation is nowadays 11:04 < MikeSeth> v-dogg: actually I am going to write a tutorial 11:04 < MikeSeth> v-dogg: Wombert hireds me to do that 11:04 < MikeSeth> v-dogg: it'll be building an Agavi blog app :> 11:08 < _cheerios> nothing like a nearby firealarm to stay awake. can't see no smoke anywhere, tho. 11:10 < _cheerios> MikeSeth: is there a deadline? :) 11:10 < MikeSeth> dog bless 11:10 < marklar|omni> haimaik 11:10 < MikeSeth> ohai 11:15 < marklar|omni> sup 11:16 < MikeSeth> belliful o'meat 11:17 < marklar|omni> samehear 11:24 -!- stachu [i=sayonara@enc170.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 11:24 < marklar|omni> 300g burgarrrrrrr 11:27 < v-dogg> I need find a manual writing tool for my non-technical colleague... easy to use, easy to publish (web + printer), easy internal linking, easy everything... 11:27 < v-dogg> BAH 11:29 < v-dogg> MikeSeth: were you working on some DITA system? 11:32 < MikeSeth> v-dogg: I am 11:34 -!- Wombert [n=Wombert@munich.bitxtender.net] has joined #agavi 11:38 < v-dogg> MikeSeth: is it some wysiwyg kinda thing or community app or what? 11:38 < MikeSeth> v-dogg: it's a documentation format like docbook 11:38 < MikeSeth> v-dogg: there are some tools to edit it WYSIWYG 11:39 < MikeSeth> v-dogg: and there's a number of interactive applications for dita editing online 11:39 < MikeSeth> Wombert: give him sum linkz 11:39 < Wombert> dita is like a modular docbook 11:39 < Wombert> xmlmind has support, apparently 11:39 < v-dogg> sure sure sure, I know what DITA is 11:40 < v-dogg> but the system you guys are building 11:40 < MikeSeth> im not building a system 11:40 < v-dogg> ah 11:40 < MikeSeth> im just writing dox 11:40 < v-dogg> roger 11:43 < Wombert> we will build a system eventually 11:43 < Wombert> btw 11:43 < Wombert> xmlmind has wysiwyg, mike 11:43 < Wombert> just checked 11:45 < MikeSeth> Wombert: for a local document, yes 11:46 < MikeSeth> but you cant render it in context of a buildscript and external configuration/documents 11:46 < Wombert> http://www.ditausers.org/tutorials/ ftw 11:46 < MikeSeth> ya 11:49 -!- shoan [n=shoan@59.92.193.147] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:49 < marklar|omni> lolez 11:49 < v-dogg> just need a suitable tool for my colleague 11:50 < Wombert> adobe fa 11:50 -!- shoan [n=shoan@59.92.193.147] has joined #agavi 11:50 < Wombert> ramemaker 11:50 < Wombert> :p 11:50 < v-dogg> ugh... 11:50 < v-dogg> don't know what it is like nowadays but some old version we have is hideous 12:03 < marklar|omni> heh 12:08 -!- Arme[N] is now known as Arme[0] 12:09 < impl> v-dogg: notepad :> 12:10 < v-dogg> no, not for this guy :) 12:10 < v-dogg> he used to write manuals with power point :) 12:10 < impl> D: 12:10 < impl> That's bad :< 12:11 < Wombert> lulz 12:11 < v-dogg> but not uncommon 12:11 < v-dogg> sadly 12:13 < marklar|omni> heh 12:13 < marklar|omni> it's better than no manuals at all 12:15 < MikeSeth> v-dogg: I hope the cops don't find his body 12:21 -!- MrJeep [n=MrJeep@74-210-181-149.hy.cgocable.ca] has joined #agavi 12:42 -!- stachu [i=sayonara@enc170.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #agavi 13:00 -!- Rendez [n=Rendez@180.Red-80-38-116.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [":: www.scopealley.com ::"] 13:00 -!- Macen [n=leopard@host86-154-107-27.range86-154.btcentralplus.com] has joined #agavi 13:08 -!- MrJeep [n=MrJeep@74-210-181-149.hy.cgocable.ca] has quit [] 13:09 -!- erisco [n=erisco@brisco.kent.net] has joined #agavi 13:10 < erisco> I am still having that base href problem... anyone have ideas? 13:12 < marklar|omni> http://www.reddit.com/info/6pp4f/comments/ 13:12 < marklar|omni> wtf 13:12 < erisco> marklar|omni, I don't want to impede, but do you know how to configure the base href in the routing? 13:13 < MikeSeth> erisco: 13:13 < erisco> MikeSeth, I know, and that is returning the wrong base href 13:13 < erisco> so is there any place I can set it? 13:13 < erisco> IMO its a bug that it is not detecting it properly 13:13 < impl> It should be automagically determined 13:14 < erisco> I am working with rewriting, as that looks nicer 13:14 < erisco> when I go to http://localhost/project/pub/ the base href is /project/pub/ which is fine 13:14 < erisco> when I go to http://localhost/project/pub/foo the base href is http://localhost/ 13:15 < erisco> which breaks everything 13:15 < impl> o_O 13:15 < v-dogg> what's your RewriteBase (.htaccess)? 13:16 < MikeSeth> erisco: "wrong"? 13:16 < MikeSeth> uh wait 13:16 < MikeSeth> what 13:16 < marklar|omni> yea wtf 13:16 < MikeSeth> erisco: plz check RewriteBase in .htaccess kth 13:16 < MikeSeth> x 13:16 < MikeSeth> erisco: your first case is wrong 13:16 < MikeSeth> not the last one 13:17 < erisco> MikeSeth, the first case is actually http://localhost/project/pub/ 13:17 < v-dogg> or not 13:17 < v-dogg> yeah 13:17 < erisco> MikeSeth, I just got lazy 13:17 < erisco> RewriteBase /project/pub/ 13:18 < impl> Are you using some funny SAPI or Webserver? 13:18 < erisco> just apache2 13:18 < erisco> do you want to me pastebin a dump of the $_SERVER array? 13:18 < impl> yeah... from /project/pub and /project/pub/foo if you can 13:19 < MikeSeth> erisco: 1) check if there's an .htaccess in /project/ (above pub/) 2) put some garbage in pub/.htaccess and try opening pub/foo - an error 500 must appear, if it doesnt then your .htaccess isnt being read 13:19 < erisco> MikeSeth, I am not using htaccess 13:20 < erisco> MikeSeth, I am using the proper internal configuration 13:20 -!- Xylakant [n=fgilcher@obc-r22-325-217-66-62-6.exozet.com] has joined #agavi 13:20 < Xylakant> huomenta 13:20 < impl> oh hai 13:21 < Xylakant> anyone time for a routing question? 13:21 < MikeSeth> erisco: then why do you have pub/? 13:21 < MikeSeth> erisco: alias /project /project/pub, RewriteBase / 13:21 < impl> Xylakant: dunno, ask :< 13:22 < MikeSeth> erisco: also do note, moving RewriteRule directives from .htaccess to server config does not work - they require manual adjustment 13:22 < erisco> MikeSeth, according to apache's docs they should be identical 13:22 < v-dogg> no, you need extra stuff 13:22 < erisco> MikeSeth, and if I was a whizz at apache2 configuration, which I'm not, I'd know how to alias that :P 13:22 < MikeSeth> erisco: no, IIRC they differ in preceding slash 13:22 < MikeSeth> lemme fetch you a sample conf 13:23 < MikeSeth> Alias /speedcash /home/yossi/public_html/speedcash/pub 13:23 < MikeSeth> SetEnv AUTOBONUS_ENVIRONMENT development 13:23 < MikeSeth> 13:24 < Xylakant> ok, I have routes that set the output type depending on how the url ends 13:24 -!- jwage [n=jwage@c-98-193-184-47.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #agavi 13:24 < MikeSeth> then of course RewriteBase becomes / 13:24 < Xylakant> like that: http://pastie.org/225502 13:24 < impl> okay 13:26 < Xylakant> and I want routing::gen() to always add the html route, so that all urls end with '.html' 13:26 < erisco> did I ever mention how much I hate rewriting and apache config in general? 13:26 < erisco> it never, ever, ever works for me 13:26 < impl> Xylakant: without having to do blah+html? 13:26 < erisco> right now I am getting infinite redirect loops... sigh 13:26 < Xylakant> yes 13:27 < impl> hmm 13:27 < Xylakant> unless any of the other routes are specified - so when I do 'blah+xml', I don't want the .html in the end... 13:27 < v-dogg> erisco: you can get routing to work without .htaccess but I can't find the example now 13:27 < erisco> MikeSeth, if the rewrite base becomes / then it says index.php cannot be found 13:27 < erisco> MikeSeth, the base has to be /project/pub/ 13:28 < erisco> v-dogg, htaccess or not, I cannot cooperate with rewriting 13:28 < Xylakant> it's easy to always add '.html' unconditionally - by setting 'imply="true"', but that does unconditionally add the '.html', whether another output-type was set or not 13:29 < v-dogg> erisco: but how can you access project/pub/foo without rewriting? 13:29 < Flukey> so tired :( 13:29 < v-dogg> erisco: http://www.agavi.org/docs/HEAD/manuals/cookbook/ch02s01.html#id928578 13:29 < erisco> v-dogg, I can't... what are you saying? 13:30 < v-dogg> see Tip 13:30 < erisco> what is happening now is the index.php file is found but the rewriting apparently does not believe it is a file and redirects again 13:30 < v-dogg> erisco: ah, I thought "I cannot cooperate with rewriting" meant I don't use rewriting 13:30 < erisco> back to the index.php 13:30 < erisco> it uses me :( 13:30 < impl> Xylakant: I'm wondering whether that would introduce some sort of non-determinance where it's impossible to tell what other routes should be added if there is an output_type or not 13:32 -!- LBO_ [i=d4a06aa0@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-7d8b850df47e9d78] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 13:32 < erisco> aren't the -d and -f things contained in another module? 13:32 < erisco> maybe there is something I do not have enabled 13:32 < v-dogg> erisco: you should probably just use .htaccess and learn apache configs later :) 13:32 < erisco> v-dogg, its the exact same thing 13:33 < v-dogg> did you read the manual section (or at least the tip in it) I just pasted? 13:35 < _cheerios> marklar|omni: d700 questions; it's DX (not FF) and the same sensor is in... D300, right? 13:35 < erisco> v-dogg, I am still getting infinite redirects :( 13:35 < v-dogg> can you paste you vhost config, please 13:37 < erisco> v-dogg, http://pastey.net/90330 13:37 < Xylakant> Impl: I wouldn't be passing an output type but a route. Anyways - Wombert says: doesn't work :( 13:37 < impl> oh well : 13:37 < impl> :\ 13:38 -!- liutis [n=codecop@78-61-197-230.static.zebra.lt] has joined #agavi 13:39 < erisco> it would be so convenient if I knew what {DOCUMENT_ROOT}%{REQUEST_FILENAME} actually evaluated to 13:39 < erisco> otherwise I am just guessing 13:39 < CIA-5> impl * r2557 /branches/impl-build_system/ (25 files in 12 dirs): 13:39 < CIA-5> branches/impl-build_system (refs #689): 13:39 < CIA-5> - Add `agavi` script 13:39 < CIA-5> - Bugfixes 13:39 < CIA-5> - Rework how project-specific build.xml files are imported 13:39 < CIA-5> - Add custom build logger for phing 13:39 < CIA-5> - Add public-web-create for creating the pub/ directory with Web content 13:39 < v-dogg> erisco: "THIS IS THE ONLY SETTING YOU SHOULD HAVE TO CHANGE" above RewriteBase... 13:39 < v-dogg> I think you should follow that :) 13:39 < erisco> v-dogg, yeah? 13:40 < erisco> v-dogg, the tip said to not use rewritebase 13:40 < impl> the new build system prompts you for it 13:40 < impl> :> 13:40 < erisco> v-dogg, so I took it out 13:40 < erisco> "You cannot use a RewriteBase, so you have to use the full relative path in the rewrite rules and destinations, including the leading slash." 13:40 < v-dogg> oh, sorry 13:40 -!- jwage is now known as jonwage 13:40 < impl> we have tips? D: 13:41 < impl> MikeSeth: for yuo, I added a script 13:41 < impl> build/script/agavi 13:41 * v-dogg smacks impl with http://www.agavi.org/docs/HEAD/manuals/cookbook/ch02s01.html#id928578 13:42 < impl> you can also symlink the script in your project directory and it will know the project directory no matter where that script is called 13:42 < impl> no added configuration :~ 13:42 < MikeSeth> impl: you are winner 13:42 < v-dogg> erisco: maybe that only works inside . dunno, I'm no Apache expert 13:43 < erisco> v-dogg, and I use the RFC2119 definition for should ;) 13:44 -!- kaos|work_ [n=dominik@munich.bitxtender.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 13:44 < _cheerios> i dont use apache anymore, but i had this old config around http://pastie.org/225514 13:44 < v-dogg> erisco: and are you sure that Alias /project doesn't mess things up? 13:44 < erisco> _cheerios, hows the ORM going? you releasing anything? 13:44 < erisco> v-dogg, I am sure of nothing 13:44 < CIA-5> impl * r2558 /branches/impl-build_system/build/ (6 files in 3 dirs): Adding svn:keywords Id for new files 13:44 < erisco> v-dogg, its all voodoo and witchcraft to me 13:45 < _cheerios> i don't know myself :) 13:45 < _cheerios> added new functionality today, but havent got to clean the core 13:46 < v-dogg> erisco: got to go, hope you figure it out 13:46 < v-dogg> home -> 13:47 < erisco> v-dogg, thanks 13:47 < erisco> man, any time that the route starts working I only get infinite redirects 13:47 < erisco> something is wrong with RewriteCond %{DOCUMENT_ROOT}%{REQUEST_FILENAME} !-f 13:48 < erisco> what module does it take to get -f to work? 13:48 < impl> ? 13:48 < _cheerios> it all comes with mod_rewrite 13:48 < erisco> perhaps it is not enabled... or perhaps %{DOCUMENT_ROOT}%{REQUEST_FILENAME} is evaluating to the wrong thing 13:48 < erisco> how do I test that? 13:48 < _cheerios> that's just some of the syntax it uses, google up apache + mod_rewrite for docs 13:48 < erisco> I remember reading -f and -d were contained in a different module, but perhaps not 13:49 < _cheerios> Xylakant: how's mtv 13:50 < erisco> is it even possible to debug somewhere what those variables evaluate to? 13:50 < erisco> obviously they are wrong, and I need to find out how 13:51 < impl> I usually do stuff like RewriteRule /test /foo?%{DOCUMENT_ROOT} [R] 13:51 < impl> which is gay, but it works 13:51 < _cheerios> setenv leet_debug_var %{DOCUMENT_ROOT} ? :) 13:51 < impl> _cheerios: do those work outside of Rewrite*? 13:52 < erisco> I cannot get a script to load, though 13:52 < erisco> I cannot get the rewriting to work 13:52 < impl> erisco: doesn't matter, you just need to see what it is 13:52 < impl> [R] redirects 13:52 < impl> so it'll show up in your address bar 13:52 < impl> :x 13:52 < erisco> okay... 13:52 < impl> or you can try the setenv and use a simple script to print it out 13:53 < erisco> well like I said a script won't work righ tnow 13:54 < _cheerios> impl: *shrug* trying to help the anti-doc guy :) 13:55 < erisco> impl, that is working 13:55 < impl> erisco: and is it right? 13:55 < erisco> no 13:55 < erisco> the request filename already included the document root 13:56 < impl> well that solves your problem then ;p 13:56 < erisco> but I am STILL getting infinite redirects 13:56 < erisco> GOD I HATE APACHE. 13:56 < erisco> nothing gets me more frustrated 13:56 -!- liutis [n=codecop@78-61-197-230.static.zebra.lt] has quit ["Leaving"] 13:58 < erisco> I even wrote in the condition RewriteCond %{REQUEST_FILENAME} !^/home/eric/Desktop/www/project/pub/index.php$ 13:58 < erisco> AND IT STILL REDIRECTS 13:58 < impl> lol 13:58 < impl> I don't think you can do that 13:59 < erisco> why not? 13:59 < impl> wait 13:59 < impl> oh cool 13:59 < impl> :> 14:00 < impl> erisco: pastebin your entire or whatever 14:00 < impl> let me see what you have done 14:02 < erisco> omfg -.- 14:02 < erisco> okay, posting 14:03 < erisco> http://pastie.org/225525 14:03 < erisco> %{REQUEST_FILENAME} is a directory!! 14:03 < erisco> why does it rewrite!! 14:04 < impl> eh 14:04 < erisco> these things are so impossible to debug. it drives me CRAZY. 14:04 < impl> RewriteRule ^/project/pub$ /project/pub/index.php?/ [QSA,L] 14:04 < impl> RewriteRule ^/project/pub/(.*) /project/pub/index.php?/$1 [QSA,L] 14:05 < erisco> that doesn't make any sense though 14:05 < impl> yes it does 14:05 < impl> you don't have a RewriteBase 14:05 < erisco> why would I match things starting with /project/pub? 14:05 < erisco> only /project appears in the url 14:06 < impl> err, you shouldn't have your directory structure like that then 14:06 < erisco> and what does it matter what index.php actually gets? 14:06 < erisco> index.php isn't getting anything right now because it keeps redirecting. if index.php is getting the wrong information that is another issue... 14:07 < impl> Alias /project /home/eric/Desktop/www/project/pub 14:07 < impl> wait 14:07 < impl> are you aliasing a directory to a sub-directory of the alias? 14:07 < impl> because /that/ doesn't make any sense 14:07 < erisco> I don't understand what you are saying 14:08 < impl> You are setting an alias for /project to a subdirectory of /project 14:08 < erisco> /project in the url is mapped to /project/pub/ 14:08 < erisco> impl, yes, as v-dogg I believe said 14:08 < impl> yeah, but that's within the alias 14:08 < erisco> or MikeSeth rather 14:09 < erisco> I do not understand what you are saying impl 14:09 < impl> /project is already a directory in the Webserver 14:09 < erisco> yes 14:09 < impl> so you're aliasing something to itself 14:09 < erisco> oh 14:10 < erisco> well where do I put it :s 14:10 < marklar|omni> in /fail 14:10 < impl> You should just move your Agavi application out of www 14:12 < erisco> impl, thanks, its working now ;) 14:12 < erisco> impl, actually that isn't the first time I aliased something to itself... sigh 14:12 < impl> no problem :> 14:12 < erisco> I am not webserver config compatible :s 14:12 < impl> lawl 14:14 < erisco> now to get on with using agavi 14:15 < erisco> "ADD: Add support for native doctrine model autoloading (#759) (David)" 14:15 < erisco> how do I take advantage of this? 14:16 < impl> it should just work 14:16 < impl> oh, hm 14:16 < impl> I C WUT U DID THAR 14:16 < impl> http://trac.agavi.org/changeset/2537 14:16 < erisco> I looked it up in the ticket 14:16 < erisco> http://trac.agavi.org/ticket/759 14:18 < MikeSeth> FUCK 14:18 * MikeSeth becomes pissed at Doctrine 14:18 < erisco> me too 14:18 < MikeSeth> Doctrine thinks it can tell me what to do and not to do in my code? 14:18 < MikeSeth> WELL FUCK YOU 14:18 < erisco> pear install http://pear.phpdoctrine.org/Doctrine-0.11.0 which is on their download page, doesn't work :s 14:19 < MikeSeth> $pdo = $this->context->getDatabaseManager()->getDatabase()->getResource(); 14:19 < MikeSeth> $stmt = $pdo->query($sql); 14:19 < MikeSeth> foreach ($stmt as $row) 14:19 < MikeSeth> $results[] = $row; 14:19 < MikeSeth> hehehe 14:19 < MikeSeth> erisco: srsly? 14:19 < MikeSeth> tell jwage 14:19 < erisco> MikeSeth, seriously 14:19 < erisco> well I put it on #doctrine yesterday 14:19 < erisco> *shrug* I will dialog jonwage then 14:20 < _cheerios> looks like youre really using doctrine to its limits there, mike ;) 14:20 -!- kapitan [i=sayonara@enc170.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #agavi 14:21 < kapitan> how to get view attributes in agavi filter 14:21 < Macen> haha MikeSeth :) 14:22 < MikeSeth> kapitan: you probably want the container attributes 14:22 < MikeSeth> kapitan: the container is passed as a parameter to the filter's execute method 14:23 < MikeSeth> _cheerios: I am. I need to form a player presence table that counts how many players are in every round, and since there are different types of players it involves subselects and self-referential joins 14:23 < MikeSeth> Doctrine is not your friend for this kinda stuff 14:23 < erisco> d'oh I thought the rewriting was working but turns out it was only because of my wacky browser cache 14:23 < erisco> I changed the file and everything broke again 14:23 < Wombert> from the container, kapitan 14:25 -!- stachu [i=sayonara@enc170.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 14:26 < _cheerios> all i read was "Doctrine is not your friend" 14:27 < kapitan> thanks i got it! 14:27 < erisco> restarting apache takes forever... 14:28 -!- Arme[0] is now known as Arme[N] 14:28 < jonwage> erisco: hmm i guess it needs to be pear install pear.phpdoctrine.org/Doctrine-0.11.0 14:28 < jonwage> pear install http://pear.phpdoctrine.org/Doctrine-0.11.0 doesn't work 14:29 < erisco> jonwage, ah, okay I will try that 14:29 < erisco> I've got another apache config problem in the meantime... 14:29 < erisco> %{REQUEST_FILENAME} is /home/eric/Desktop/project/plant.png when it should be /home/eric/Desktop/project/pub/plant.png 14:29 < erisco> so therefore it is not finding any of the images 14:31 < erisco> jonwage, Package "pear.phpdoctrine.org/Doctrine-0.11.0" is not valid 14:31 < jonwage> hmm it worked for me 14:31 < jonwage> sudo pear install pear.phpdoctrine.org/Doctrine-0.11.0 14:32 < erisco> oh, the sudo did it, heh 14:32 < erisco> what a misleading error message. anyways, thanks 14:32 < jonwage> ya 14:32 < jonwage> weird 14:33 < erisco> oh, duh, my apache alias is wrong 14:33 < erisco> I need a break :s 14:33 < erisco> aliases are killing me today 14:35 < erisco> let's see if I can get away without having to restart apache in the next hour 14:45 < Xylakant> ok, bye all :) 14:45 -!- Xylakant [n=fgilcher@obc-r22-325-217-66-62-6.exozet.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:52 -!- MerlinDMC [n=MerlinDM@p578b1081.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [] 15:04 -!- stachu [i=sayonara@enc170.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #agavi 15:19 -!- erisco [n=erisco@brisco.kent.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:23 -!- erisco [n=erisco@brisco.kent.net] has joined #agavi 15:23 < erisco> should a module be used for each individual function of the site or is it more like symfony's applications? 15:24 < erisco> where you would just have a frontend module and backend module? 15:24 < stachu> hello 15:24 < stachu> i heard that mtv.de is on agavi 15:24 < stachu> its true? 15:24 < stachu> is it true? 15:24 < erisco> for example in a simple blog site you have categories, articles, comments, and static pages. should all these concepts be in a single module? 15:24 < erisco> or should there be a Categories module, Comments module, Articles module, etc? 15:25 < erisco> and in that case should both the guest and administrative functions exist in the same module? 15:25 < erisco> because be it not that case I believe it should be a frontend and backend module 15:25 < erisco> and the individual aspects use the SubModule.ActionName scheme 15:26 -!- MrJeep [n=MrJeep@lbcomm-gx.abacom.com] has joined #agavi 15:27 < erisco> there lacks a documentation for this 15:27 < impl> stachu: It's true 15:27 < MikeSeth> stachu: yes 15:27 < MikeSeth> ;> 15:28 < impl> % nc mtv.de 80 | grep 'X-Powered-By' 15:28 < impl> GET / HTTP/1.1 15:28 < impl> X-Powered-By: Agavi/1.0.0-dev on PHP/5.2.6-1~westend+etch1 15:28 < MikeSeth> apt-get install libwww-perl 15:28 < MikeSeth> :D 15:28 < impl> DO NOT WANT 15:29 < impl> I'm sure I could do it with links or something, but it's easier to just speak HTTP 15:31 < erisco> MikeSeth, where did you stick that generic Doctrine layout for agavi? 15:33 -!- shoan_ [n=shoan@59.92.139.144] has joined #agavi 15:33 < erisco> MikeSeth, do you remember that? 15:37 < MikeSeth> yes 15:37 < MikeSeth> but it's for doctrine 0.10 15:37 < MikeSeth> if you want to grab it 15:38 < MikeSeth> ZOMG 15:38 < MikeSeth> VICTOLY 15:38 < MikeSeth> http://laist.com/2008/06/30/california_to_legalize_weed_for_eve_1.php 15:39 < erisco> MikeSeth, nothing is that different between 0.10 and 0.11 is there? 15:40 < MikeSeth> erisco: well aside of 100+ bug fixes and a bunch of improvements 15:40 < MikeSeth> sec ill fetch you the link 15:40 < erisco> MikeSeth, I just wanted the layout, not the doctrine source code 15:40 < erisco> I pear'd it already 15:40 < erisco> I am currently hunting through the 1MB june IRC log for that link 15:40 < erisco> < MikeSeth> I made a plug-in for Doctrine sandbox 15:41 < erisco> I am getting close 15:41 < MikeSeth> http://www.mikeseth.com/agavi-doctrine-plugin.tgz 15:41 < erisco> http://mikeseth.com/agavi-doctrine-plugin.tgz 15:41 < erisco> dang, I just found it :P 15:42 < erisco> thanks MikeSeth 15:42 -!- shoan [n=shoan@59.92.193.147] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:46 < erisco> MikeSeth, you should throw in a database config for it as well 15:48 < marklar|omni> MikeSeth: can you pick up xl/coek on teh way? 15:48 < marklar|omni> someone drank the last xl 15:48 < marklar|omni> :( 15:50 < MikeSeth> marklar|omni: it was there in the fridge in the morning you nigger 15:50 < MikeSeth> erisco: there's a sample database config 15:50 < marklar|omni> and its not here 15:50 < MikeSeth> erisco: plz2see readme 15:50 < MikeSeth> marklar|omni: of course it isnt, you left and I drank it 15:50 < MikeSeth> marklar|omni: I'm taking a cab nao 15:51 < MikeSeth> marklar|omni: so I'll ask the driver 15:51 < marklar|omni> 0oa 15:51 < marklar|omni> k 15:51 < marklar|omni> thx 15:51 < marklar|omni> <3 15:51 < marklar|omni> I raep nao 15:52 < marklar|omni> i haz tf2 addiction :( 15:55 < erisco> MikeSeth, know any docs for how to design modules? 15:56 < erisco> MikeSeth, with the ability to just have sub modules it is confusing as to what deserves to be its own module 15:59 < stachu> cause im writing bigger app in agavi and im thinking if is it good idea 15:59 < stachu> it cant be slow 15:59 < erisco> stachu, agavi isn't slow 15:59 < erisco> agavi + Doctrine + apc and you're flying at 100 rps 16:00 < stachu> but i have friends who are wiriting huge applications in php without OOP 16:00 < stachu> it stupid, isnt it? 16:00 < stachu> its 16:00 < erisco> OOP is just a style 16:01 -!- saracen [n=shalco@91.84.44.213] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:01 < erisco> big applications doesn't mean OOP is required 16:01 -!- saracen [n=shalco@91.84.44.213] has joined #agavi 16:01 < stachu> 4 people working on php project written without framework? 16:01 < stachu> is it good idea? 16:01 < erisco> surely there are guidelines though? 16:02 < erisco> aimlessly coding is a bad idea, yes 16:03 < stachu> im a little bit scared becouse i have written store in agavi and in localhost its working fine 16:03 < stachu> but i dont know what will be on server 16:04 < erisco> you do not know your production environment? 16:06 < stachu> not yet but company will buy new i think if there will be some problems 16:06 < stachu> its my first bigger app 16:06 < erisco> ideally your development environment is a clone of your production environment 16:06 < stachu> im reading a lot of articles about optimalizating servers and php :) 16:07 < erisco> then there aren't any guesses 16:07 < erisco> premature optimization is a bad idea 16:07 < erisco> how many visitors are you expecting per day? 16:08 < stachu> 10 000 per day? 16:08 < stachu> is it a lot? 16:08 < erisco> no 16:08 < stachu> uff 16:09 < stachu> product table 70 000 16:09 < erisco> think about it. 10000 in 24 hours. so we divide by 24, which is 415 people per hour. then divide by 60 for minutes and 60 for seconds... 16:09 < stachu> product_feature table approx 1 000 000 16:09 < erisco> taht is 0.1 people per second 16:09 < stachu> uniq 16:09 < erisco> or just 7 per minute 16:09 < stachu> 10 000 uniq per day 16:10 < erisco> now there may be busy times and non-busy times 16:10 < erisco> say at 5 is when we get 40% of all the people 16:10 < erisco> but that is something you will have to monitor 16:10 < stachu> have you evere used memcached? 16:10 < erisco> I use apc 16:11 < stachu> oh 16:11 < stachu> so its only alternative 16:11 < erisco> that is just what it is called 16:13 < stachu> thanks a lot for some info :) 16:13 < Macen> lol 16:13 < Macen> you didn't get an answer 16:14 < Macen> what's the answer :p 16:14 < erisco> Macen, what is the question? 16:14 < Macen> best practice for using MVC frameworks 16:15 < erisco> that's quite a vague question... 16:15 < erisco> maybe a more specific question is "how should an agavi module be used?" which is a question I have :P 16:16 < stachu> but are there some benchmarks how agavi perform in background of other frameworks 16:17 < erisco> stachu, it depends what you are doing, really, but agavi doesn't have much overhead 16:17 < erisco> stachu, I wouldn't be that concerned about 10k users per day unless you are expecting them within a couple hours 16:18 < erisco> and even then it'd probably be okay 16:18 < erisco> you can always add more servers later, right? 16:18 < stachu> i only wanted to know if 10 000 visits per day is a lot for agavi 16:18 < stachu> i know it depends on server 16:18 < stachu> but should i be worried about it 16:18 < stachu> yep 16:19 < erisco> stachu, I get 0.003 seconds on a poor benchmark environment for agavi serving up a static page 16:19 < Macen> where are the figure, what's the link..................................... 16:19 < erisco> stachu, additional overhead is ORM + database time primarily 16:19 < erisco> stachu, and in that I am loading up agavi plus doctrine, but using apc to save butt loads of time on doctrine 16:19 < Wombert> erisco: did you sort the rewrite stuff 16:20 < erisco> Wombert, yeah... with enough headaches :P 16:20 < Wombert> your rules were for virtualhosts 16:20 < Wombert> well 16:20 < Wombert> for using in vhost configs 16:20 < Wombert> not for use in .htaccess 16:20 < Wombert> :> 16:20 < erisco> Wombert, what I wanted to ask now is what modules should be treated as 16:20 < erisco> Wombert, are they like symfony applications? (are you familiar?) 16:20 < Wombert> kind of 16:21 < Wombert> some people have "public" and "admin" modules ;) 16:21 < erisco> well say in a blog I have posts, categories, and comments 16:21 < Wombert> others have one module for each big functionality 16:21 < stachu> i will test my app on Fujitsu Siemens Computers Hardware, AMD X2/64 5200+, 2.7 GHz, 2048MB RAM 16:21 < erisco> Wombert, yeah, in another project I used Public and Admin 16:21 < Wombert> me too 16:21 < Wombert> for a blog... hmm 16:21 < Wombert> I'd have... "blog", then "cms", then "admin", and other stuff 16:21 < Wombert> mind you you can nest actions 16:22 < stachu> i hope that will be anough 16:22 < Wombert> app/modules/Blog/actions/Postings/Posting/DeleteAction.class.php 16:22 < stachu> enaugh 16:22 < Wombert> it is, usually 16:22 < erisco> Wombert, yes, so nesting actions seems to serve as submodules 16:22 < Wombert> feel free to draft something up and show it around here 16:22 < Wombert> pretty much yes erisco 16:23 < erisco> Wombert, I think I am satisfied with a Public and Admin then, as they are the two huge separations 16:23 < erisco> Wombert, if I had a single "Post" module it would contain both the public and admin functionality, and that seems wrong 16:24 < erisco> unless I just had, say Post.Public.View and Post.Admin.Edit, say 16:24 < erisco> which also works :P 16:25 < erisco> in agavi it would be organized as Admin.Post.Edit 16:26 < erisco> following the rest of the scheme, because for example each submodule doesn't get its own single directory, it gets directories inside of templates/, views/, actions/, etc 16:26 < Wombert> btw 16:26 < Wombert> :> 16:26 < Wombert> client-254-001:~ dzuelke$ wget -O - -q --save-headers http://bmw-web.tv/ | grep "X-Powered-By" 16:26 < Wombert> X-Powered-By: Agavi 16:26 < Macen> ehh 16:26 < Macen> +1 for public+admin same folder 16:27 < Macen> *module 16:27 < Macen> not folder 16:27 < Macen> maybe sub-folder 16:27 < Macen> sub-action.. 16:27 < Macen> .. 16:27 < erisco> from a maintenance/management standpoint I am not sure if it is more likely to deal with "Post" as a whole, or just for example the Admin side of "Post" 16:28 -!- stachu [i=sayonara@enc170.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 16:28 < Wombert> I wouldn't do modules for post, comment etc 16:28 < Macen> i think about extractability mostly 16:29 < erisco> Macen, this is true 16:29 < Macen> ya 16:30 < erisco> although I don't see myself needing to extract code like that 16:30 < Macen> well you see i do 16:30 < Macen> at least, the core 16:30 < erisco> although the idea of module is probably modular programming... 16:31 < erisco> nonetheless, a Post module is tied to models, and tied to templates 16:31 < erisco> just to outright rip a module from one project and plug it into another sounds like more than a copy and paste anyhow 16:31 < Wombert> it's not really realistic 16:32 < Wombert> other project uses different db/orm/blah 16:32 < Wombert> or templates 16:32 < Wombert> etc 16:32 < Wombert> it can be done, but don't expect plug-and-play ;) 16:32 < Wombert> I guess that's one of the unsolved problems of any framework 16:32 < Wombert> anyways 16:32 < Wombert> otoh, you might want to have all blog related funcitonality in one module, right? 16:32 < Macen> well the way i work atm is basically, the "module" is actually seperated into all the main "language" folders. like, includes/common/_mod_name_.php then includes/modules/_mod_name_/pages & includes/modules/_mod_name_/filters & includes/modules/_mod_name_/ajax - then includes/scripts_mod_name.js 16:32 < erisco> DI is the supposed solution 16:32 < Wombert> doubt you could, make, say, the comments feature flexible enough so that it can be used with any stuff, not just the blog 16:33 < Wombert> yeah likely, erisco 16:33 < erisco> why doesn't agavi adopt a DI container? 16:34 < Macen> also it's kind of been fubar'ed a bit because i now have an extjs folder which outputs code from includes/common/extjs_addon 16:34 < Macen> but... 16:34 < Macen> it works 16:34 < erisco> agavi already uses the xml config files which are ideal for DI setup 16:35 < Wombert> :> 16:35 < Wombert> gotta run 16:35 < Wombert> laters guys 16:35 -!- Wombert [n=Wombert@munich.bitxtender.net] has quit ["bai"] 16:35 < erisco> bye 16:35 * Macen waves 16:35 < Macen> i just hope agavi is web 2.0 friendly 16:35 < Macen> i don't know yet :) 16:35 < Macen> ajax etc this is all fine i hope... 16:35 < Macen> blah 16:36 < erisco> I believe so. if you check out the sample app it uses different web services 16:36 < erisco> thanks to context its all pretty intuitive 16:36 < Macen> overhead for an ajax call just seems pointless 16:36 < Macen> yea, cool 16:36 < erisco> ajax is cool in my opinion ;) 16:36 < Macen> kk 16:37 < erisco> I'm one for wanting to make web applications more like desktop applications 16:37 < Macen> ya, that's part of my spiel 16:38 < Macen> see http://pa [spam] na [spam] z8.youds.com/app 16:38 < Macen> coming along smoothly.. 16:38 < Macen> extjs is fairly rocking 16:38 < Macen> wouldn't use it on front end though 16:39 < erisco> Macen, jQuery or prototype 16:39 < erisco> oh, extjs :P 16:40 < Macen> prototype..that was my first extjs framework :) 16:40 < Macen> ERR 16:40 < Macen> javascript* 16:40 < Macen> my first javascript framework* 16:40 < Macen> jQuery was too complex for me.. 16:40 < erisco> do you find extjs the best for the GUI type of stuff then? 16:40 < erisco> jQuery is the only simple thing to me :s 16:40 < Macen> right click context menu's... 16:40 < Macen> single or double click grid functionality... 16:41 < Macen> dialog boxes pre-config'ed 16:41 < Macen> grids.... 16:41 < Macen> i'd say so 16:41 < erisco> I haven't looked into jQuery GUI, but I know they have great dialogue boxes 16:42 < Macen> prototype was useful but not a framework really 16:42 < Macen> just lots of short cuts 16:42 < Macen> mootools is worth a mention for their transitions 16:42 < Macen> and sexy code 16:42 < Macen> but yeh.. 16:42 < Macen> extjs for admin deffo 16:45 < Macen> the key is, extract the extjs source and the examples fiolder, rename the "examples" folder to "plugins" (heh) and then use them as that 16:45 < Macen> because css is all relative and they use their own images folders, you literally have the "backend" in place by including the extjs file 16:46 < Macen> then you're flying.. 16:47 -!- icyt is now known as IcyT 16:48 < Macen> heh 16:48 < Macen> possibly the best quick fix to get wow factor i've ever seen anyway 16:49 < Macen> their code is fugly however, so i have files that act as templates which get included before a load of vars are set (through a function) 16:49 < Macen> there are other drawbacks too 16:50 < Macen> *after 16:50 * Macen coffee 16:56 * Flukey sleep 16:58 < erisco> Macen, "rename the 'examples' folder to 'plugins'", lmao 17:01 < erisco> I can't wait until everything is USB 17:01 < erisco> won't need to open up a case ever again 17:02 < erisco> need another 2GB of ram? plug 'n play baby! 17:03 < erisco> complete idiots could modify their computers... and we wouldn't need to worry about interior case space 17:03 < erisco> or ventilation... everything is sufficiently self-contained and non-conflicting 17:04 < erisco> we wouldn't need to worry about those finicky connectors and hard to reach places 17:04 < erisco> which risks damaging components 17:05 < erisco> including something stupid (but not hard to do) like shocking and thus frying a component 17:05 < erisco> we have usb floppy drives, cd/dvd rom drives, tape drives, hard drives 17:06 < erisco> the extra lag time from the cable would be something to consider... but what about usb with fiber optics? 17:06 < erisco> now we are really talking 17:08 < erisco> in our computer we could have a mother board, onboard ram, and a CPU 17:08 < erisco> heck, maybe not even a cpu! 17:08 < erisco> usb cpu... heheh 17:09 < erisco> so speaking of web 2.0, I think we are ready for computer 2.0 ;) 17:11 < erisco> and, man, with a single interface there wouldn't be all those nit-picky requirements 17:13 < Macen> ha!!!forget that dude, i'm all for sharing knowledge but letting them do it themselves?!!! god forbid!!! 17:13 < Macen> nah i don't even know anyone who does web 2.0 successfully as it can be done in the entire north of england 17:13 < Macen> when i see someone doing it i may shut up about it tbh :p 17:14 < Macen> atm i'm "that guy who says you can" not "that guy who is doing" 17:14 < Macen> which is obviously not good 17:14 -!- Flukey [n=jhall@80.4.120.163] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:50 < marklar|omni> heh 17:50 < marklar|omni> sekz. 18:03 < marklar|omni> anyone alive? 18:07 < marklar|omni> WAKE UP SHEEPLE 18:09 * Macen isn't anyone YOU HEAR 18:09 < Macen> so i going L:D 18:09 < Macen> harhar baiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii 18:09 -!- Macen [n=leopard@host86-154-107-27.range86-154.btcentralplus.com] has quit [] 18:10 < marklar|omni> durrrrr 18:12 < marklar|omni> argh 18:25 < _cheerios> looking for tf2 playas? :) 18:26 < marklar|omni> nah 18:26 < marklar|omni> trying to find something to get as a present for self 18:26 < marklar|omni> birthday in 2wks 18:26 < marklar|omni> ;[ 18:26 < marklar|omni> ideas? 18:27 -!- Spica_ [n=miikka@thule.yok.utu.fi] has joined #agavi 18:28 -!- Spica [n=miikka@thule.yok.utu.fi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:29 < _cheerios> tickets to vegas with loaded up mastercard 18:30 < marklar|omni> nah 18:30 < marklar|omni> can't fly till end of august 18:30 < marklar|omni> had a pneumothorax in feb 18:30 < marklar|omni> and I hate the us 18:30 < marklar|omni> anything else? 18:31 -!- fnordfish [n=fnordfis@obc-r22-325-217-66-62-6.exozet.com] has joined #agavi 18:33 < _cheerios> there's always next year 18:33 < _cheerios> im seeing that d700 everywhere today due ads 18:34 < marklar|omni> yeah 18:34 < marklar|omni> I don't want to get a new (way better) cam tho 18:34 < marklar|omni> because I'll abandon my other shit 18:34 -!- Wombert [n=Wombert@dslb-088-066-181-069.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #agavi 18:37 < Wombert> huomenta 18:37 < marklar|omni> hai2u 18:40 < marklar|omni> Wombert: hear? 18:40 < Wombert> eh? 18:40 < marklar|omni> 21:26 < marklar|omni> trying to find something to get as a present for self 18:40 < marklar|omni> 21:26 < marklar|omni> birthday in 2wks 18:40 < Wombert> howmuch 18:41 < marklar|omni> $500usd or so 18:41 < marklar|omni> something small 18:41 < impl> get an iPhone lolol 18:42 < marklar|omni> ugh fail 18:42 < marklar|omni> no 18:46 < _cheerios> it's cheap! you can get it for 1e in finland! that is, while paying a hundred euroes a month for the twenty-four month contract period. 18:48 < MikeSeth> Wombert: what else is going on in the trunk? 18:49 -!- jonwage [n=jwage@c-98-193-184-47.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has left #agavi [] 18:49 < marklar|omni> heh 18:49 < marklar|omni> I hate apple 18:52 < marklar|omni> srsly guise, halp. 18:53 < MikeSeth> wat 18:53 * MikeSeth bothers Wombert 18:54 < Wombert> uh well 18:54 < Wombert> loads of refactoring!? 18:54 < Wombert> why are you asking 18:54 < Wombert> btw skype as planned? 18:54 < Wombert> or push back a bit? 18:54 * Wombert has to eat 18:54 < Wombert> marklar|omni: ps3? :> 18:54 < E_mE[Stilgar> Wombert: chilli ;) 18:55 < marklar|omni> meah 18:55 -!- jwage [n=jwage@c-98-193-184-47.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #agavi 18:55 < marklar|omni> Wombert: neh 18:55 < MikeSeth> Wombert: can push imo 18:55 < MikeSeth> Wombert: dont you think text chat is more productive? 18:56 < erisco> gah I cannot bootstrap doctrine :s 18:57 < erisco> MikeSeth, you had written $dbm = $ctx->getDatabaseManager()->getDatabase()->getConnection()->connect(); 18:57 < erisco> MikeSeth, $ctx->getDatabaseManager() is returning null 18:57 < erisco> MikeSeth, the configuration is in databases.xml though 18:58 < Wombert> settings.xml 18:58 < Wombert> use_database 18:59 < impl> IS BACK 19:00 -!- fnordfish [n=fnordfis@obc-r22-325-217-66-62-6.exozet.com] has quit [] 19:01 < erisco> Wombert, thanks 19:01 < Wombert> ohai 19:05 < _cheerios> MikeSeth: does wombie sound like arnold? 19:06 < impl> Wombert: what was the name of the beer we had tonight again? 19:07 < marklar|omni> waht 19:07 < marklar|omni> beer 19:07 < marklar|omni> want nao 19:08 < Wombert> Tegernseer Hell 19:08 < impl> nice, thanks 19:08 < Wombert> other good one is Augustiner 19:08 < impl> yar, I can remember that name :D 19:11 < erisco> I am going to put time into my site this summer 19:12 < erisco> when I start projects like that I always tend to want a site design first 19:12 < erisco> it seems more satisfactory to fill in the backend to something that looks good 19:12 < erisco> rather than build the backend and spit out a bunch of garble the whole time 19:13 < impl> I know what you mean :> 19:13 < marklar|omni> heh 19:13 < _cheerios> http://tinyurl.com/2vb346 19:13 < marklar|omni> I had a website that had an error_log() based output 19:13 < marklar|omni> for weeks 19:14 < MikeSeth> bukiphperr. 19:14 < marklar|omni> haha yeah 19:14 < marklar|omni> design was bukitables 19:14 < MikeSeth> FUNNE = NO :< 19:14 < marklar|omni> noez 19:21 -!- Whisller [n=Whisller@chello089078126051.chello.pl] has joined #agavi 19:21 < Whisller> hi 19:22 < marklar|omni> sup 19:34 -!- Spica [n=miikka@thule.yok.utu.fi] has joined #agavi 19:39 < erisco> I am trying to use the new native Doctrine model loading... doesn't seem to be working out for me very well 19:41 < erisco> http://pastey.net/90373 19:42 < erisco> both those paths should be valid... but I get errors saying none of the models were loaded :( 19:44 -!- Spica_ [n=miikka@thule.yok.utu.fi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:44 < MikeSeth> erisco: is that from my template? 19:44 < erisco> MikeSeth, those paths? 19:44 < MikeSeth> yes 19:44 < MikeSeth> i have hacks there 19:44 < erisco> MikeSeth, yes, they correspond with your template 19:44 < MikeSeth> I think you need to apply a patch in agavi/ 19:45 < MikeSeth> plz see readme 19:45 < erisco> what readme? :s 19:45 < MikeSeth> there's no readme in the template app? 19:45 < erisco> is there? lost the zip :P 19:45 < MikeSeth> duh there is 19:45 < MikeSeth> mikeseth.com/agavi-doctrine-plugin.tgz 19:47 < _cheerios> http://boobsforbarack.com/ 19:49 < erisco> MikeSeth, I don't know what that changed, but it may be working 19:51 < erisco> okay.. agavi seems to be running... doctrine seems to be running.. 19:51 < erisco> time to start building the app 19:52 < E_mE[Stilgar> MikeSeth: what does your plugin do? 19:53 < erisco> E_mE[Stilgar, it provides a generic Doctrine setup with agavi 19:53 < erisco> E_mE[Stilgar, its a template, you merge it over top of your existing project 19:54 < erisco> hmm... maybe I should just grab an open source template and mix it up a bit 19:58 < E_mE[Stilgar> erisco: oh i just inserts all the required information for doctrine to work 19:58 < E_mE[Stilgar> very nice :) 20:02 < MikeSeth> E_mE[Stilgar: mine comes with doctrine cli 20:02 < MikeSeth> :D 20:03 < E_mE[Stilgar> yeah i noticed couple of CLI references, not used it yet my self 20:04 -!- stachu [i=sayonara@enc170.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #agavi 20:04 < MikeSeth> well you better 20:04 < MikeSeth> i have a shell script that resets the database 20:05 < erisco> my site is known for my tic tac toe AI and my dynamic header images script 20:05 < erisco> in fact I have a few searches specifically looking for my script 20:05 < erisco> and the tic tac toe ones seem to be random people interested in tic tac toe AI 20:06 < erisco> php generate headers from fonts as images script 20:06 < erisco> I rank second there 20:06 < erisco> someone must have been pleased ;) 20:07 < MikeSeth> keekeke 20:08 -!- jwage [n=jwage@c-98-193-184-47.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [] 20:08 < erisco> is that a laugh or are you choking? 20:10 < MikeSeth> its the korean laugh 20:10 < MikeSeth> Wombert: dita toolkit is f'd up 20:10 < MikeSeth> trying to figure it out 20:11 < erisco> you know, I badly neglect my site 20:11 < erisco> for no reason either... I do actually want to maintain it. *shrug* 20:12 < erisco> first of all I have to come up with a new site design (and I am not a very good designer...) 20:12 < erisco> and then I have to get off of wordpress because I hate its guts 20:13 -!- _cheerios [n=goodrobo@dsl-hkibrasgw3-fe74fb00-140.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:14 -!- Netsplit kornbluth.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: E_mE, Arme[N], impl 20:14 * E_mE[Stilgar wished he could have 2 monitors so he could see errors as they happen ;) 20:14 < erisco> I much like the web 2.0 look but its not quite my personal style 20:14 < erisco> I wouldn't want something like cakephp's site as my personal site 20:14 < erisco> simple is good but boring isn't... its gotta have a bit of interest 20:15 < erisco> I hate little fonts, which is tough because bigger fonts don't look elegant 20:15 < erisco> people need to get off of the damn 800x600 resolutions 20:15 -!- Netsplit over, joins: Arme[N], impl, E_mE 20:15 < erisco> most sites I go to I have to ctrl++ the hell out of it before I can read it 20:16 < erisco> I can probably survive with just a two column site with a header and footer... yes... 20:16 * erisco goes away for a while to brainstorm 20:28 -!- jwage [n=jwage@c-98-193-184-47.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #agavi 20:41 -!- Whisller [n=Whisller@chello089078126051.chello.pl] has quit [] 20:52 -!- _cheerios [n=goodrobo@dsl-hkibrasgw3-fe74fb00-140.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #agavi 20:55 < impl> Wombert: poek 21:00 < E_mE[Stilgar> evenin impl 21:01 < impl> hallo E_mE 21:02 < E_mE[Stilgar> do you see the game on sunday at the beer garden? 21:02 < impl> We went to the Olympiapark 21:02 < E_mE[Stilgar> whats that? 21:02 < impl> The Olympic Stadium thing 21:02 < impl> that they built in 1972 or something for the games 21:02 < E_mE[Stilgar> they have a big screen or so 21:03 < impl> http://www.flickr.com/photos/nfontes/sets/72157605922175360/ <-- I uploaded some pictures 21:03 < impl> the fourth one has a picture of the screen 21:04 < E_mE[Stilgar> haha being taking pictures of random girls =P 21:04 < impl> Well I was just walking past and then they looked up at me and did the peace sign 21:04 < impl> I could hardly /not/ take their picture 21:04 < impl> :> 21:04 < erisco> http://www.oswd.org/design/preview/id/26 "Hacked together for OSWD.org. I hope you enjoy my third design." -- you mean there are two more of these? 21:05 < erisco> where's the decent free stuff when you need it? 21:05 < E_mE[Stilgar> hehehe 21:05 < impl> erisco: there's a few decent free designs on OSWD 21:05 < E_mE[Stilgar> seems very cool in the stadium 21:05 < erisco> http://www.oswd.org/design/preview/id/2879 http://www.oswd.org/design/preview/id/2963 http://www.oswd.org/design/preview/id/3173 21:05 < erisco> those all have things I like... 21:06 < Wombert> well it would have been cooler if we had won... 21:08 < erisco> I don't want to completely take a design though. hm 21:09 < erisco> mainly because I don't want some random credit link :P 21:11 < erisco> I think I like http://www.oswd.org/design/preview/id/2879 the best 21:11 < erisco> it achieves the best look with the least graphics 21:11 < erisco> now just to get a good colour scheme and I can roughly duplicate the layout... 21:11 < erisco> the blue is a bit too sister blue for my taste 21:13 < erisco> http://www.colorcombos.com/color-scheme-260.html 21:13 < erisco> looks good! 21:14 -!- MrJeep [n=MrJeep@lbcomm-gx.abacom.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:15 < Wombert> too boring erisco 21:15 < Wombert> the blue to the right 21:16 < Wombert> plus black 21:16 < Wombert> and a dark red 21:16 < Wombert> or an orange 21:16 < Wombert> or the blue and a brown and... mh... a white 21:16 < erisco> are you a designer? 21:16 < Wombert> no, I couldn't even draw a circle on a sheet of paper 21:16 < erisco> few can 21:16 < Wombert> but I'm not too useless with colorts 21:16 < Wombert> *colors 21:17 < impl> zomg, I had this one teacher 21:17 < erisco> yeah but it cannot just be some random color scheme that looks good 21:17 < impl> who could spin around or so while holding a piece of chalk and draw a perfect circle on the blackboard 21:17 < erisco> its gotta be something I like too 21:17 < erisco> impl, I saw such a teacher on college humour 21:17 < erisco> they use the radius of their arm 21:19 < erisco> http://www.colorsontheweb.com/colorschemes.asp look for "lebak" 21:19 < erisco> its got a nice green in there 21:19 < Wombert> try uhm 21:19 < Wombert> FA6E00 21:19 < Wombert> and 21:19 < Wombert> uhm 21:19 < Wombert> 3A3A3A 21:19 < Wombert> and 21:19 < Wombert> uhm 21:19 < impl> http://www.colourlovers.com/palette/440946/Just_An_Orgasm 21:19 < Wombert> 3E66AA 21:20 < erisco> impl, looks like old cakephp site colours 21:21 < Wombert> the caek is a lie 21:21 * Wombert pets portal 21:21 < impl> Wombert: now you can sing the song 21:21 < Wombert> :>>>> 21:21 < impl> erisco: what colors are you looking for, anyway? 21:22 < erisco> impl, blue/silver or green/grey 21:22 < erisco> Wombert, I don't agree with the orange... I'm not very graphical and I couldn't see using that orange in solid blocks very successfully 21:22 < Wombert> use it for accents 21:22 < Wombert> links or blah 21:23 < Wombert> just shades of blue gets old real quick 21:23 < Wombert> you need contrast 21:23 < Wombert> anyways 21:23 < Wombert> laters :> 21:23 < impl> http://www.colourlovers.com/palette/440261/for:elpasa01 21:23 < Wombert> much better 21:24 < Wombert> why worry bout the colors at this point anyway? :p 21:25 < impl> erisco: you can steal the ones from http://transtruct.org/ if you want (ignore the fact that the menu is in the middle of the content, plzkthx) 21:25 < Wombert> uh 21:25 < Wombert> impl: 21:25 < Wombert> the menu is in the middle of the content I think 21:25 < Wombert> :>> 21:26 * impl slaps Wombert 21:26 < Wombert> heh 21:26 < impl> Months ago I intended to move it from one place to another 21:26 < impl> so I got rid of half of the CSS and then got distracted 21:26 < impl> -> that result 21:26 < erisco> impl, I can handle monochromatic blue but not green 21:27 < erisco> I still like 99CC00 353535 4F4F4F F2F3ED 21:27 < _cheerios> rewriting java classes? odd hobbies. 21:28 < Wombert> word 21:28 < erisco> what a coincidence, feebee is a light pink 21:29 < Wombert> heh 21:31 < E_mE[Stilgar> is there some math or theroy behind colours that math each other? 21:31 < Wombert> sure 21:31 < E_mE[Stilgar> match 21:32 < E_mE[Stilgar> i know that red and black aint friends hehe 21:32 < E_mE[Stilgar> and blue and black 21:33 < Wombert> http://www.colorschemer.com/schemes/ 21:33 < E_mE[Stilgar> thanks 21:34 < E_mE[Stilgar> i cant believe there are websites for colour schemes 21:42 -!- kapitan [i=sayonara@enc170.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:43 -!- Wombert [n=Wombert@dslb-088-066-181-069.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [] 21:46 < erisco> its been long enough that I forget how to float something 21:46 < erisco> wow 21:47 < erisco> E_mE[Stilgar, yeah, loads of em. kuler (by adobe) was the first I found 21:49 < erisco> oh, solved the floating problem. buggery thing 21:50 < erisco> buggery is not the word I was looking for 21:50 < erisco> buggy* 21:51 < _cheerios> aww.. watching trailers its so wrong to see the american release date just to find out the film comes 2mo later locally x_X the dvdrip should be out by then *gah* 21:56 < erisco> lipsum is the most useful thing given its simplicity in concept 21:59 < MikeSeth> impl: Wombert around? 21:59 < erisco> gah, changed my mind, don't like the green 21:59 < impl> MikeSeth: Wombert disappeared off somewhere, dunno 22:00 < erisco> its too nature-looking for me 22:00 < impl> doesn't sound like he's going to be around again tonight 22:00 < erisco> its sharp, but it isn't me 22:00 < MikeSeth> oh 22:02 < impl> MikeSeth: did you try anything like actually creating a usable project with the new buildsystem at all? 22:03 < impl> I'm not really sure it works at all 22:03 < impl> :> 22:03 < MikeSeth> impl: I just checked it out 22:03 < MikeSeth> impl: I mean from the repo 22:03 < impl> ah okay 22:03 < MikeSeth> havent played yet - trying to figure out why the dita toolkit doesnt render headers/footers 22:03 < MikeSeth> kinda makes me angry :> 22:03 < impl> oh noes 22:03 < impl> it's all Java isn't it, should be extensible and stuffs right? 22:04 < MikeSeth> well yes it should be 22:04 < MikeSeth> except when it doesnt do what the documentation says it should be doing 22:04 < impl> :( 22:05 < erisco> there, I picked a really boring blue and grey scheme 22:05 < erisco> I LOVE it :P 22:08 < impl> :< 22:08 < E_mE[Stilgar> nite nite 22:12 < impl> night, sir 22:15 < _cheerios> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHWmFkpondw big city lights o_O 22:16 -!- stachu [i=sayonara@enc170.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:19 -!- _cheerios [n=goodrobo@dsl-hkibrasgw3-fe74fb00-140.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:24 < MikeSeth> OH TREACHEROUS DITA 22:24 < MikeSeth> I SEE WHAT YOU DID THERE 22:33 -!- Rick [i=rick@unaffiliated/rick] has quit ["I… don't need to be here."] 22:36 -!- Rick [i=rick@pool-71-189-11-16.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #agavi 22:37 -!- erisco [n=erisco@brisco.kent.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:42 -!- IcyT is now known as icyt 23:02 -!- MiNiMEE [n=denis@brln-4dbc39b3.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #agavi 23:03 < MiNiMEE> good morning! 23:04 < MikeSeth> you mean night 23:04 < MikeSeth> but hello! 23:05 < MiNiMEE> oh well, depends on which side of the globe u r ... have to admit that it's dark where i am at ... :D 23:06 < MikeSeth> indeed 23:07 < MiNiMEE> r u up for a question about routing ... still having a few problems with mtv.de 23:09 < MiNiMEE> mike? 23:10 < MikeSeth> um 23:10 < MikeSeth> i can try to help you 23:10 < MikeSeth> so sure, shoot 23:10 < MikeSeth> (mind you I am not a developer of mtv.de) 23:11 < MiNiMEE> ok, we have several things like "" in our routing, but want to add a ".html" rendering for all content, except the ones like .rss aso ... 23:13 < MiNiMEE> oh well ... i have to extend a few things for mtv.de, so we've decided to join this channel and post our questions here ... if u don't mind :D 23:14 < MiNiMEE> problem is, that we couldn't figure out a way to check for existing routes so that there won't be things like "/.../blabla.html.rss" ... 23:14 < MikeSeth> hmmmmm 23:15 < MikeSeth> *all* content? 23:15 < MiNiMEE> all regular content ... except rss and 3 or 4 defined ones 23:16 < MiNiMEE> 23:16 < MiNiMEE> 23:16 < MiNiMEE> 23:16 < MiNiMEE> so three and the one for .rss ... 23:17 < MiNiMEE> it's no problem to append ".html" to any route, but when it comes to rendering everything WITH ".html" we are kind of stuck ... 23:18 < MiNiMEE> get the picture so far? 23:18 < impl> MiNiMEE: Felix asked the question earlier, I thought trying to do that would result in a situation where the outcome would not be possible to discern, and David said it just isn't possible 23:20 < MiNiMEE> hm ... grml ... 23:20 < MikeSeth> MiNiMEE: why would you want to do this anyway? If someone told you that you can improve SEO by adding .html, dont listen to them 23:21 < MikeSeth> also 23:21 < MikeSeth> DITA = pwned 23:21 < MiNiMEE> well ... that's exactly what's the problem 23:21 < MikeSeth> I can has custom designs! 23:21 < MikeSeth> MiNiMEE: what is? 23:21 < MiNiMEE> that some SEO guy said we have to append a .html to our URLs ... *don't ask* 23:24 -!- jwage [n=jwage@c-98-193-184-47.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [] 23:24 < MikeSeth> well your SEO guy doesnt know what he's talking about 23:24 < MikeSeth> either way 23:25 < MikeSeth> you do not want to do this for anything other than actual content 23:25 < MikeSeth> .xml and .txt and .rss shouldnt be changed - it simply makes no sense 23:25 < MiNiMEE> oh and since you were talking about SEO, anyone here that at least knows a fairly good portion of the google algorythm? i am asking because of H1 vs H2 aso. 23:25 < MikeSeth> no one knows anything 23:25 < MikeSeth> really 23:25 < MikeSeth> SEO people are mostly talking out of their ass 23:25 < MiNiMEE> *g* 23:26 < MikeSeth> and if your guy had any brains he'd know that changing thousands of URLs on a working site will cause much more damage to the ranking than improvement 23:26 < MikeSeth> especially on a site as big as MTV 23:27 < MikeSeth> I know this because I work with this kind of "SEO specialists" to this day, dog bless their wicked souls 23:28 < MiNiMEE> yeah ... one thing has to be changed thou ... our news reside under URI's like /article/1234567 ... and that URI is not exclusive for news, but other content too ... so there we will have to bend routing a little 23:28 < MiNiMEE> AMEN! 23:28 < MiNiMEE> *g* 23:29 < MiNiMEE> .. remember that /date/id/title thing from the other day? 23:33 < MiNiMEE> suggestion: what about including a URI.class.php so that lame false-SEO-freaks could have clean URLs enabled/disabled if they know nothing about the power of routing? 23:33 < MiNiMEE> i mean, including it in agavi ... in general 23:35 < MikeSeth> what would it do? 23:35 < MikeSeth> the current routing mechanism is powerful to do pretty much anything 23:38 < MiNiMEE> i don't know, simply just making it do those things ... i recently took a look into CodeIgniter wich does it via such a class ... 23:38 < MikeSeth> well, Agavi is designed for custom applications 23:38 < MikeSeth> your approach is just one of many 23:39 < MikeSeth> besides 23:39 < MiNiMEE> i hope that mentioning CI won't result in a general "kick/ban/ignore" now :D 23:39 < MikeSeth> the XML configuration allows you to include other XML and apply stylesheets to it 23:39 < MikeSeth> so if you really wanted to, you could write a XSLT stylesheeet that does exactly what you want and distribute it as a plugin 23:39 < MiNiMEE> yeah ... 23:40 < MiNiMEE> hm ... didn't think of that ... good point ... 23:40 < trophaeum> MiNiMEE, i do quite a bit of seo work, .html is bullshit (unless u end up with a url ending with .exe from the url generation and its actually html) 23:40 < MikeSeth> trophaeum: it's the stupid urban legends from webmasterworld.com 23:40 < MikeSeth> im telling you 23:41 < MikeSeth> in any given group of 3 SEO "experts" there will be at least 4 contradicting opinions 23:41 < trophaeum> MikeSeth, no its lame ass whitehat seo's who dont test things to find out for themselves *sigh* 23:41 < MiNiMEE> thanks trophaeum ... this makes it rock-solid for me now ... screw .html ! 23:41 < MiNiMEE> LOL 23:41 -!- jwage [n=jwage@c-98-193-184-47.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #agavi 23:41 < MikeSeth> trophaeum: and it all started with one chick writing a bullshit post on her blog so that she could rake in on adsense 23:41 < MikeSeth> god damn these people 23:42 * MikeSeth burns SEO artists at stake 23:42 < MikeSeth> ok, it's time for me to hit the sack 23:42 < MiNiMEE> but hey, some guy came in, sat down with us and told us things among which that "append a .html" thing was ... and now we poor little coders have to find a way to "do it", as nike would have said it ... 23:42 < MikeSeth> DITA's been trying to do me 23:42 < MikeSeth> but I won 23:43 < trophaeum> MiNiMEE, change seo companies lol 23:43 < MikeSeth> consultants 23:43 < MikeSeth> CONSULTANTS 23:43 < MikeSeth> CONSULTANTS!!!! 23:43 < MiNiMEE> it was one guy ... and i took some mentionable stack of money with him when he left ... i didn't ask for his opinion!!! 23:44 < MikeSeth> MiNiMEE: well. You probably can change the extensions in URLs for most of content 23:44 < MikeSeth> but seriously, don't 23:44 < MiNiMEE> i won't ... 23:44 < MikeSeth> you will lose zillions of incoming links 23:44 < MikeSeth> okay 23:45 < MikeSeth> then I can go to sleep :> 23:45 < trophaeum> MiNiMEE, if u want honest seo advice feel free to msg me, im rather bored atm, i can see plenty of little issues on there atm :) 23:45 < MiNiMEE> trophaeum: what about H1 vs H2 ... which one weighs more when it comes to SEO? H1 right?! ... 23:45 < trophaeum> ya 23:47 < MiNiMEE> sure, would be happy to get a little help from someone that acually knows about the topic and doesn't just blurp-out false advice 23:48 < MiNiMEE> here's one for ya: he actually told us to SUBMIT our page to search engines ... now, even i know that this is bullshit!!! 23:48 < trophaeum> uv got 125k incoming links, if u cant get indexed without that with that many links theres something wrong haha 23:49 < MiNiMEE> yep --- Day changed Wed Jul 02 2008 00:09 -!- ttj [n=tjorri@kosh.hut.fi] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:09 -!- ttj [n=tjorri@kosh.hut.fi] has joined #agavi 00:40 -!- MugeSo [n=Tanaka_K@220x218x27x242.ap220.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #agavi 01:21 < MiNiMEE> good night guys ... have to hit the sack now 01:22 -!- MiNiMEE [n=denis@brln-4dbc39b3.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [] 01:30 -!- sikkle [n=sikkle@modemcable089.215-81-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #agavi 02:21 -!- MrJeep [n=MrJeep@modemcable136.46-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #agavi 02:41 -!- MrJeep [n=MrJeep@modemcable136.46-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["I Quit!"] 02:51 -!- webreg [n=cyber_ka@203.87.176.8] has joined #agavi 02:51 < webreg> Hello everyone 03:03 < sikkle> helo webreg 03:11 < webreg> i am new here 03:11 < webreg> i am newbie 03:11 < webreg> there have tutorial screencast for agavi 03:12 < webreg> its easy to install of agavi? 03:12 < sikkle> just give it a try 04:40 -!- webreg [n=cyber_ka@203.87.176.8] has quit [] 04:57 -!- sikkle [n=sikkle@modemcable089.215-81-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [] 05:27 < v-dogg> huomenta 05:52 -!- shoan_ [n=shoan@59.92.139.144] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:52 -!- shoan [n=shoan@59.92.139.144] has joined #agavi 06:07 -!- _cheerios [n=goodrobo@dsl-hkibrasgw3-fe74fb00-140.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #agavi 06:07 < _cheerios> huomenta 06:12 -!- shoan [n=shoan@59.92.139.144] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:19 -!- jwage [n=jwage@c-98-193-184-47.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit ["jonwage@gmail.com"] 07:04 -!- MiNiMEE [n=denis@brln-4dbc12f5.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #agavi 07:06 -!- MiNiMEE [n=denis@brln-4dbc12f5.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Client Quit] 07:10 < _cheerios> http://www.avnetlabs.com/php/php-framework-comparison-benchmarks 07:13 < E_mE> huomenta 07:24 < E_mE> somewhat of an invalid statement: procedural code (aka. spaghetti code) 07:25 < E_mE> _cheerios: that was from the page you linked! 07:26 < v-dogg> hah, procedula code aka. spaghetti :) 07:26 < _cheerios> it's a blog, they're made for adsense, not for facts :) 07:26 < v-dogg> tell that to C people :) 07:32 < E_mE> hah, that guys examples are slower with op-code caches? :/ that doesn't seem right 07:34 < _cheerios> no, he just removed the top benchmarks. the interesting tidbit is how fast vanilla RoR comes out, you know, that slow slow ruby/ror thing! 07:37 < v-dogg> it's said to be slow? 07:37 < marklar|omni> meeh 07:45 < marklar|omni> MikeSeth: here? 07:49 -!- Rendez [n=Rendez@180.Red-80-38-116.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #agavi 07:58 -!- shoan [n=shoan@122.166.1.168] has joined #agavi 07:59 -!- MerlinDMC [n=MerlinDM@p578b1081.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #agavi 08:05 < E_mE> i shall no longer give AVG the thumbs up for this behaviour, its messed up: http://go.theregister.com/feed/www.theregister.co.uk/2008/06/26/avg_disguises_fake_traffic_as_ie6/ 08:08 < v-dogg> hah, nice one 08:09 < v-dogg> I'd imagine AVG is going to see a slight increase in incomming hate mail :) 08:10 < E_mE> we've even seen a 4000 unique hit increase last month 08:10 < E_mE> might be ligitmate but who knows 08:27 < MikeSeth> marklar|omni: rgr 08:28 < MikeSeth> where's wombert 08:28 < MikeSeth> durrr 08:29 < marklar|omni> durr 08:29 < marklar|omni> buki found eyeglasses in his car 08:30 < MikeSeth> not mine lol 08:30 < MikeSeth> http://www.avnetlabs.com/php/php-framework-comparison-benchmarks KEKEKKEKEKE 08:30 < marklar|omni> anything with labs in teh url = fale 08:30 < v-dogg> heh 08:30 < marklar|omni> grr pixelated stock illustration logo 08:31 < marklar|omni> The tests were run on a 1.8Ghz AMD sempron computer with 512Mb RAM running Ubuntu Gutsy (7.10) Desktop. 08:31 < marklar|omni> oh thats exactly what I run my 5mil uniq users a month websites on! 08:31 < marklar|omni> !! 08:33 < marklar|omni> um, how in the world could *any* failwork get 3.6 req/s 08:33 < marklar|omni> it's like they slowed it down on purpose 08:36 < MerlinDMC> ... a "benchmark" ... with no real relevance ^^ 08:37 < marklar|omni> heh 08:37 < MerlinDMC> but that cake stuff is curios ... thats less than i would imagine ... seems to be a mistake ... 08:38 < MerlinDMC> cake was not that slow in my evaluations 08:38 < marklar|omni> heh 08:38 < marklar|omni> the cake is, again, a lie 08:38 < _cheerios> debug=on comes to mind 08:40 < MerlinDMC> I wish i would have time to test agavi a little more ^^ 08:41 < MerlinDMC> theres much potential ... but without a documentation thats a lot of work :P 08:50 -!- zorglu_ [n=jerome@LPuteaux-151-42-20-45.w193-252.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #agavi 08:52 < MikeSeth> documentation is coming soon 08:52 -!- zorglu_ [n=jerome@LPuteaux-151-42-20-45.w193-252.abo.wanadoo.fr] has left #agavi ["http://blog.web4web.com"] 08:55 < MerlinDMC> MikeSeth, I know ... autumn with V1.0 08:55 < MerlinDMC> spoke with Wombert ;) 08:56 < marklar|omni> http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii5/whatsthename/Funny%20Stuff/permaban.gif 09:12 -!- Strzalek [n=Strzalek@dkd100.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #agavi 09:12 < Strzalek> huomenta 09:14 < MerlinDMC> huomenta 09:31 * MikeSeth yawns 09:32 -!- _cheerios [n=goodrobo@dsl-hkibrasgw3-fe74fb00-140.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit ["Konversation terminated!"] 09:32 -!- MugeSo [n=Tanaka_K@220x218x27x242.ap220.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox 3.0/2008052906]"] 09:33 < MikeSeth> http://www.avnetlabs.com/php/php-framework-comparison-benchmarks should we do this benchmark? 09:49 < v-dogg> hey guys, I still don't know what's the correct way to define custom date/time formats 09:49 < v-dogg> I remember Wombs saying that you don't have to (and aren't supposed to) define translator domains for each format 09:53 < MerlinDMC> MikeSeth, you have time to port das simple app? ^^ ... would be interesting to see the comments I think :P 09:54 < MerlinDMC> s/das/that/ ... nargh ... 09:55 < MikeSeth> v-dogg: me neitehr 09:55 < MikeSeth> we need manuals 09:55 < MikeSeth> MerlinDMC: i havent looked at the sample app 09:55 < MikeSeth> MerlinDMC: I can probably make it work and then send the agavi distro to the guy 09:55 < MikeSeth> cuz he has the box on which it was measured 09:56 < MerlinDMC> MikeSeth, u can build sth. like a sandbox app ... with framework and stuff included ... so that the setup is easy ;) 09:57 < MerlinDMC> the app itself is just the display of a table with data from a db ... afaik 10:05 < MikeSeth> MerlinDMC: basically a 10 minute work 10:05 < MerlinDMC> MikeSeth, 10 Minutes if u know the framework, or have documentation ;) 10:06 < MerlinDMC> I would spend more than 4hours i think 10:06 < MerlinDMC> ^^ 10:28 < marklar|omni> hai2u 10:29 < E_mE> MikeSeth: that benchmark such is bullshit im sure 10:30 < impl> humhum 10:30 < E_mE> MikeSeth: somewhat of an invalid statement: procedural code (aka. spaghetti code) 10:32 < impl> it is a BS benchmark 10:32 < impl> it doesn't test any framework features 10:39 -!- Flukey [n=jhall@80.4.120.163] has joined #agavi 10:39 < Flukey> yo yo yo 10:39 < marklar|omni> heh 10:39 < marklar|omni> maik, heard about the bulldozer shit in jlm? 10:40 < v-dogg> impl: aye. yet another totally useless benchmark 10:40 < impl> /sigh 10:53 < MerlinDMC> impl, BS yes ... but many people reading such things ... thats advertising ;) 10:54 < impl> Stupid developers =X 11:03 -!- shoan [n=shoan@122.166.1.168] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:09 < MikeSeth> marklar|omni: yes 11:09 < MikeSeth> marklar|omni: they shot him lol 11:42 < marklar|omni> yea heh 11:42 < marklar|omni> video is funnay 12:06 -!- sikkle [n=sikk@bas4-montreal02-1096722769.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #agavi 12:06 < CIA-5> impl * r2559 /branches/impl-build_system/build/build.xml: branches/impl-build_system (refs #689): add project-model-remove and project-template-remove 12:22 -!- nfq [n=nfq@165-195.5-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #agavi 12:29 -!- nfq [n=nfq@165-195.5-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [] 12:52 -!- Rendez [n=Rendez@180.Red-80-38-116.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [":: www.scopealley.com ::"] 12:58 -!- vjoe [i=hugo@a83-132-37-125.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #agavi 12:58 < vjoe> hello 13:00 -!- _cheerios [n=goodrobo@dsl-hkibrasgw3-fe74fb00-140.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #agavi 13:00 < vjoe> do you think that Agavi is a good launchpad to understand the MVC paradigm? 13:02 < _cheerios> good? great! 13:06 < vjoe> okay I will continue reading the documentation then :) 13:06 < vjoe> I still have to completely understand what is a framework 13:07 < v-dogg> vjoe: just remember that MVC in the web world is not implemented in the same way as the "original" MVC (event-observer based) 13:08 < vjoe> regarding MVC, I have only read the Wikipedia article about it 13:08 < vjoe> I know nothing apart from that 13:08 < impl> un momento 13:08 < impl> http://java.sun.com/blueprints/patterns/MVC-detailed.html 13:08 < impl> Take a look at that 13:09 < vjoe> ok, thanks 13:15 < MikeSeth> vjoe: the wikipedia article is pretty accurate 13:17 < vjoe> according to the Sun article, it's only useful to use a MVC type of architecture when developing an application which will have various intefaces 13:17 < vjoe> what about a website? 13:17 < vjoe> do you think it's still worth it? 13:18 < impl> Yeah 13:19 < impl> In this day and age, you're /expected/ to have these Web services, these WML output types, si necesse est 13:19 < vjoe> I see 13:19 < impl> And MVC gives you some sort of flexibility to be able to implement that sanely 13:20 < vjoe> so if you were to develop a website from scratch, you would use MVC right? 13:20 < vjoe> and regarding the three components, I'm not quite understanding the role of the "model" 13:20 < vjoe> the controller seems to be the core of the application and the views are the interfaces 13:20 < vjoe> but what is the model? 13:20 < v-dogg> vjoe: a modern web site has normally at least two interfaces - html and json (or some other output type used via ajax) 13:21 < impl> Well, the controller actually does relatively little besides interface between the view and the model 13:21 < vjoe> hm.. so if I want to use AJAX I have to use MVC? 13:21 < impl> the model is where the beef of your application should generally be 13:21 < vjoe> "beef"? 13:21 < impl> oh sorry :> 13:21 < impl> the main part 13:21 < v-dogg> vjoe: you don't have to but you should 13:21 < vjoe> v-dogg, I see 13:21 < vjoe> impl, what is the main part? :P 13:22 < impl> vjoe: Where you perform operations on your data 13:22 < vjoe> so it's the php or python script? 13:22 < vjoe> or perl... etc 13:22 < v-dogg> vjoe: you don't want to duplicate application logic just because you need both HTML and JSON output. 13:22 < v-dogg> one action - multiple output types 13:22 < vjoe> I see 13:23 < impl> vjoe: Well, I mean, the whole of Agavi for instance is implemented in PHP 13:23 < vjoe> and if the Model is the "core", what is the Controller then? 13:24 < vjoe> the data? 13:24 < impl> No, the controller communicates between the model and the view 13:24 < impl> passes request data around, etc 13:24 < vjoe> hm... :s 13:24 < impl> MikeSeth: http://thismight.be/offensive/uploads/2008/07/01/image/237873_TFPooh.jpg 13:24 < vjoe> the best way to actually understand that is to explore an application right? 13:25 < vjoe> I will continue reading agavi's documentation 13:25 < impl> vjoe: prolly 13:25 < MikeSeth> impl: haha needs more blood 13:29 < Flukey> marklar|omni: which video? 13:39 -!- shoan [n=shoan@122.166.1.168] has joined #agavi 13:54 < marklar|omni> http://www.nrg.co.il/online/1/ART1/754/605.html 13:54 < marklar|omni> Flukey: ^^ 14:00 < _cheerios> hmm, underclocked memory to 667mhz, perhaps now i can use all my mem with the comp remaining stable *crosses fingers* 14:05 -!- CIA-5 [n=CIA@208.69.182.149] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:10 -!- CIA-5 [n=CIA@208.69.182.149] has joined #agavi 14:24 < vjoe> by the way guys, how would you compare Agavi with other frameworks such as Cake or CodeIgniter 14:24 < vjoe> ? 14:30 < impl> Well, you're asking for an obviously biased opinion, but Cake and CI are generally quite a mess 14:33 < vjoe> I found Agavi while reading Wikipedia, I was looking for a "small" framework 14:34 < vjoe> I believe it's easier to start with a smaller one 14:34 < vjoe> my only concern regarding Agavi is that it probably isn't used professionally 14:38 -!- shoan [n=shoan@122.166.1.168] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:38 < _cheerios> critics, ahoy! which one? 1) http://www.ikea.com/PIAimages/58673_PE164158_S4.jpg (450e) 2) http://www.ikea.com/PIAimages/80291_PE204542_S4.JPG (699e) 14:40 < _cheerios> vjoe: it is. agavi just doesn't have as big a following as ci, cake or symfony. 14:41 < vjoe> what do you mean "as big a following"? 14:41 < _cheerios> you can do a highly scientific test by visiting each projects irc channel. 14:43 < vjoe> codeigniter's channel hasn't many more people than this one 14:43 < vjoe> although cakephp seems to be quite popular 14:47 < impl> vjoe: Agavi is used on some quite large sites 14:47 < impl> % nc www.mtv.de 80 | grep X-Powered-By 14:47 < impl> GET / HTTP/1.1 14:47 < impl> X-Powered-By: Agavi/1.0.0-dev on PHP/5.2.6-1~westend+etch1 14:47 < vjoe> sure, but I was talking in terms of jobs and such 14:48 < vjoe> wowo 14:49 < _cheerios> don't expect to get a job with agavi expertee (that goes for pertty much any framework) :) 14:50 < vjoe> actually the other day I came across to someone asking for a CodeIgniter expert 14:50 < vjoe> anyway... 14:50 < vjoe> DOM, Reflection and SPL extensions are required 14:51 < impl> vjoe: As it stands, you really have to sell Agavi with its features, not just "oh well it's the framework that everyone on the Web uses" 14:51 < vjoe> are they installed with the default Debian apache package? 14:51 < impl> I believe they should be, yes 14:52 < vjoe> is it recommended to install Agavi wit hPEAR? 14:52 < vjoe> with PEAR* 14:52 < _cheerios> vjoe: consulting and one time projects, doable, getting a full-time job, harder! 14:53 < vjoe> _cheerios, yes, that's true :D 14:53 < vjoe> besides, learning how to use a framework such as Agavi can be useful with freelance jobs right? 14:54 < _cheerios> like some dude once said, knowledge is power. 14:54 < impl> vjoe: yeah, PEAR is a good way to go 14:55 < _cheerios> so, 1 or 2 ? 14:55 < vjoe> yeah and it's never too many :D 14:55 < vjoe> impl, but isn't it better to copy paste the folder? 14:55 < vjoe> I never used PEAR before 14:55 -!- MerlinDMC [n=MerlinDM@p578b1081.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [] 14:56 < impl> vjoe: You can do it either way 14:56 < impl> it doesn't really matter 14:57 < impl> when you copy the directory, you'll have to make a one-line change* to the agavi-dist file before you can use the script (*fixed and no longer necessary in the new build system that will be in the next release) 14:57 < vjoe> but for instance 14:57 < vjoe> pear install agavi/agavi 14:57 < impl> if you do it that way, then everything just works 14:58 < vjoe> this command will download the folder from the server and paste it in my current folder? 14:58 < vjoe> I'm kinda lost :P 14:59 < impl> no 14:59 < impl> it actually installs it to /usr/share/php or /usr/share/pear depending on your install, generally 14:59 < impl> Which makes the framework files available system-wide 15:00 < vjoe> hm.. 15:00 < vjoe> well, I'm going to try 15:00 < vjoe> but using pear is the same thing that using aptitude for instance? 15:01 < impl> Nah, different storage subsystems 15:01 < impl> same idea, though 15:01 < impl> they are package managers 15:01 < vjoe> I see 15:02 < _cheerios> This backtrace appears to be of no use. 15:02 < _cheerios> This is probably because your packages are built in a way which prevents creation of proper backtraces, or the stack frame was seriously corrupted in the crash. 15:03 < _cheerios> crash handler mocking the crash message :) 15:06 -!- jwage [n=jwage@corp.centresource.com] has joined #agavi 15:11 < vjoe> Auto-discovered channel "pear.phpunit.de", alias "phpunit", adding to registry 15:11 < vjoe> registry? 15:11 < vjoe> oh noes! 15:11 < vjoe> kidding :P 15:15 < vjoe> by the way, I installed it without installing the dependencies first 15:15 < vjoe> I supposed they were installed automatically 15:17 < impl> If it installed them, then yes :P 15:17 < vjoe> brb 15:25 < vjoe> back 15:25 < vjoe> impl, 15:25 < vjoe> >or if you want to bundle Agavi with your application 15:25 < vjoe> why would I want to bundle it? 15:27 < impl> To manage the libraries yourself, so it is easy to redistribute, whatever 15:35 < vjoe> and impl, removing it with pear is just "pear uninstall agavi"? 15:38 < impl> something like that, yeah 15:39 < vjoe> now how can I access the framework? 15:39 < vjoe> in the manual it says: 15:39 < vjoe> Agavi comes with a (very simple) sample application. To make it work, all you have to do is adjust samples/pub/index.php to point to agavi.php, whereever it's installed, and maybe change permissions of samples/app/cache so it's writeable by your web server or PHP. Then, fire it up in your browser and play around with it. 15:39 < vjoe> but I don't get it :\ 15:42 < impl> Well, you obviously have to have a VirtualHost or some sort of configuration in your Webserver to point to that index.php also 15:43 < vjoe> hm.. :\ 15:45 < vjoe> I managed to use the sample file from the zip file 15:45 < vjoe> anyway, I'm starting to understand it 15:45 < vjoe> agavi project 15:45 < vjoe> so the framework is actually a program and not a script 15:47 < impl> Well, it is more like a very large collection of scripts 15:47 < impl> since PHP is not a programming language anyway 15:48 < vjoe> hm, I believe I have just created my first Avaghi project 15:48 < vjoe> I mean 15:48 < vjoe> Agavi 15:48 < vjoe> xD 15:48 < impl> using `agavi project`? 15:48 < vjoe> it created an app and pub folders in the folder I pointed 15:48 < vjoe> yes 15:48 < impl> yeah :P 15:49 < vjoe> so the website is both folders? 15:49 < vjoe> or just the pub one? 15:49 < impl> pub is roughly equivalent to 'www' or 'public_html' 15:49 < impl> the app directory contains all the configuration, logic, for your Web application 15:50 < impl> (models, views, ettc) 15:50 < impl> etc* 15:50 < vjoe> but what if I want to upload my website to a host 15:50 < impl> You need both directories, as well as the Agavi core libraries (installed with PEAR) 15:53 < vjoe> hm. so the server has to have Agavi installed, right? 15:53 < vjoe> I thought the frameworks built stand alone apps... .\ 15:53 < vjoe> :\ 15:54 < impl> Yes, it does. Which is why it is useful to just download the Agavi source code along with your app. 15:54 < impl> (redistributable) 15:55 < impl> as far as stand-alone... no, they always have library dependencies 15:56 < vjoe> what difference makes if I have the source code? 15:57 < impl> ? 15:57 < vjoe> you said «Which is why it is useful to just download the Agavi source code along with your app.» 15:57 < impl> ah, sorry 15:57 < impl> I poorly worded that 15:57 < impl> I mean, that's why it's useful to have a directory with the Agavi libraries in it distributed in the same project directory as your built application 15:58 < impl> that way it's easy to put onto 15:58 < vjoe> hm wait 15:58 < vjoe> let's suppose that I have an account on some host with FTP access 15:58 < vjoe> which as public_html and etc 15:58 < vjoe> can I have my Agavi website running on it? 15:59 -!- MiNiMEE [n=denis@brln-4dbc12f5.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #agavi 15:59 < impl> Sure 15:59 < MiNiMEE> howdy 15:59 < impl> hallo 16:01 < vjoe> hey 16:01 < vjoe> so impl, I upload the contents of "pub" to "public_html" 16:01 < vjoe> and what do I do next? 16:03 < impl> vjoe: You have to upload app to app, and Agavi libraries somewhere 16:03 < impl> lib or something 16:05 < vjoe> I get it, thanks 16:06 < MiNiMEE> off topic:: who likes MS SharePoint? raise your hands! 16:07 < vjoe> impl, is there a section in the manual which explains the architecture of the framework? 16:07 < CIA-5> david * r2560 /branches/david-system_action_refactoring/src/controller/AgaviController.class.php: make new container for internal redirect to "Unavailable" action, refs #769 16:09 < MiNiMEE> vjoe: http://www.agavi.org/docs/HEAD/manuals/manual/ch03.html ... as a starting point, but it depends on what u need to be explained 16:09 -!- MrJeep [n=MrJeep@modemcable136.46-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #agavi 16:10 < vjoe> MiNiMEE, I want to know how a framework works 16:10 < vjoe> for example, how they make the xml files "work" 16:10 < MiNiMEE> real basics ... 1sec 16:10 < vjoe> brb 16:12 < MiNiMEE> vjoe: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model-view-controller ... really basic! but from there you should be able to understand it in principle ... 16:19 < vjoe> back 16:19 < MiNiMEE> wb 16:19 < vjoe> yes MiNiMEE I have already read that 16:19 < vjoe> as well as an article from Sun 16:19 < MiNiMEE> forget the wiki link ... 16:19 < vjoe> but I was talking about xml parsing and that type of stuff 16:20 < MiNiMEE> get it ... you will have to take a look into core yourself ... i am just using it ... :D 16:20 < vjoe> eheh 16:21 < vjoe> by the way, 16:22 < vjoe> >and, of course, the WelcomeToAgaviAction.class.php, WelcomeToAgaviSuccessView.class.php and WelcomeToAgaviSuccess.php template 16:22 < vjoe> where are these files? 16:27 < marklar|omni> ohai2u 16:27 < marklar|omni> in modules/default/ 16:27 < marklar|omni> actions, views and templates respectively 16:27 < MiNiMEE> ^^ 16:29 < MiNiMEE> src/buildtools/core_templates/defaults/* this is where you can find them when you extract the zip/gz the first time 16:32 < v-dogg> vjoe: this (or parts of it) might be usefull: http://phpseriously.com/archives/8-Getting-Started-with-Agavi-and-Propel-Part-1 16:34 < vjoe> thanks 16:34 < ttj> Muahaha, brilliant! I can fit the new Thinkpad X61s into my portfolio case. \o/ 16:35 < ttj> No need to lug along the briefcase anymore if I just need to carry the laptop and some papers. 16:38 < marklar|omni> I want a lowepro computrekker 16:38 < marklar|omni> my current Dicota backpack is nice too 16:39 < vjoe> eheh 16:39 < vjoe> I'm going to buy a Asus F8SN soon :D 16:45 < marklar|omni> nice 16:45 < marklar|omni> meh 16:46 < ttj> Pfft. Mobility + battery life FTW! 16:46 < ttj> Been using this for two hours now and it still has ~4.5 hours left in the battery. \o/ 16:47 < E_mE> baaii 16:50 -!- MiNiMEE [n=denis@brln-4dbc12f5.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [] 16:57 -!- MerlinDMC [n=MerlinDM@dslb-084-063-145-027.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #agavi 17:18 -!- vjoe [i=hugo@a83-132-37-125.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit ["Leaving"] 17:24 -!- icyt is now known as IcyT 17:29 < marklar|omni> zomg 17:29 < marklar|omni> brainfuck interpreter in lolcode 17:29 < marklar|omni> http://forum.lolcode.com/viewtopic.php?id=51 17:30 -!- Flukey_ [n=jhall@92.40.188.57.sub.mbb.three.co.uk] has joined #agavi 17:31 -!- Flukey [n=jhall@80.4.120.163] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:40 < MrJeep> anyone ever experienced this error with propel ... [wrapped: SQLSTATE[HY000]: General error: 1210 Incorrect arguments to mysql_stmt_execute] 17:42 -!- Flukey_ [n=jhall@92.40.188.57.sub.mbb.three.co.uk] has quit [] 17:43 < marklar|omni> protip: propel = fail. 17:43 < MrJeep> it's a pdo error before being a propel error 17:46 < MrJeep> oh possibly a simple mysql error 17:48 -!- Arme[N] is now known as Arme[0] 17:49 < impl> marklar|omni: hohoho@brainfuck interpreter 17:52 -!- Strzalek [n=Strzalek@dkd100.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:07 -!- Strzalek [n=Strzalek@dmj178.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #agavi 18:08 < marklar|omni> heh hai 18:08 < CIA-5> david * r2561 /branches/0.11/ (CHANGELOG etc/phing/AgaviPackageTask.php src/version.php): rc2 version info 18:13 -!- MerlinDM [n=MerlinDM@dslb-084-063-145-137.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #agavi 18:22 -!- MerlinDMC [n=MerlinDM@dslb-084-063-145-027.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 18:24 < CIA-5> impl * r2562 /branches/impl-build_system/build/agavi/script/agavi.php: branches/impl-build_system (refs #689): Fix small oversight 18:26 -!- MerlinDM [n=MerlinDM@dslb-084-063-145-137.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["Leaving..."] 18:32 < MikeSeth> impl: where's Wombert? O_O 18:33 < impl> I don't know :\ 18:33 < impl> Working from home, anyway 18:33 -!- Zee\ [i=WinNT@zeelot.fiu.edu] has joined #agavi 18:36 < marklar|omni> wow 18:36 < marklar|omni> this laptop is winnar. 18:36 < marklar|omni> fbsd in vmware compiling tehportz fgj 18:36 < marklar|omni> and no noticeable effect on the rest of the box 18:37 < impl> maybe it just freebsd that is win 18:37 < impl> :> 18:37 < marklar|omni> It Certainly Is. 18:38 < marklar|omni> (tm) 18:38 < marklar|omni> man, I wish I could make love to freebsd 18:38 < impl> it is* 18:38 < ttj> Man, I don't. 18:38 < marklar|omni> heh 18:38 < marklar|omni> I <3 it 18:38 < impl> well, there's always beastie... 18:38 < marklar|omni> hm 18:38 < ttj> Eww... 18:38 < marklar|omni> might get burned tho 18:38 < marklar|omni> I could help him rape the penguin though 18:38 -!- MerlinDMC [n=MerlinDM@dslb-084-063-145-137.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #agavi 18:38 < ttj> Might get a pitchfork stuck in a nasty place. 18:39 < marklar|omni> buttfork. 18:39 < marklar|omni> heh 18:40 < impl> there used to be a site of a reasonably hot 'FreeBSD girl' that they had at conventions and shit 18:40 < impl> I can't find it now, though 18:41 < marklar|omni> ya 18:41 < marklar|omni> I kidnapped her 18:41 < marklar|omni> :< 18:41 < impl> D: 18:41 < marklar|omni> http://farm1.static.flickr.com/46/111143969_35533831ab.jpg 18:42 -!- MrJeep [n=MrJeep@modemcable136.46-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["I Quit!"] 18:42 < ttj> "A cute BSD chick, who in fact turned out to be a cute BSD boy..." 18:42 < marklar|omni> but you probably meant this: 18:42 < marklar|omni> http://mosel.estg.ipleiria.pt/files/imagens/pics_Ceren_Booth_dbabe08.preview.jpg 18:43 < ttj> Ooh... Not too shabby. 18:43 < marklar|omni> http://www.bleeding.com/~jon/women/BSDGirl.jpg 18:43 < marklar|omni> shopped but nice 18:43 < impl> marklar|omni: ya 18:44 < marklar|omni> TF2 time 18:45 < impl> http://wrzask.pl/fun/bsd_vs_linux/ 18:45 < impl> :>> 18:51 -!- Zeelot3k [i=WinNT@zeelot.fiu.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:51 -!- Zee\ is now known as Zeelot3k 19:04 -!- MiNiMEE [n=denis@brln-4dbc12f5.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #agavi 19:07 -!- Wombert [n=Wombert@dslb-088-066-171-072.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #agavi 19:08 -!- stachu [i=sayonara@enc170.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #agavi 19:11 -!- nfq [n=nfq@165-195.5-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #agavi 19:19 -!- MerlinDMC [n=MerlinDM@dslb-084-063-145-137.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["Leaving..."] 19:23 -!- MerlinDMC [n=MerlinDM@dslb-084-063-145-137.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #agavi 19:39 < CIA-5> david * r2563 /tags/0.11.2RC2/: tagging 0.11.2 RC2 for release 19:39 -!- Wombert changed the topic of #agavi to: Welcome to Agavi :: latest: 0.11.2 RC2 :: stable: 0.11.1 :: http://agavi.org/ :: want svn? use http://svn.agavi.org/branches/0.11/ :: http://ohloh.net/projects/5907 :: have a question? Just ask, and wait patiently, as patience is the key to happiness :: logs at http://agavi.org/irclogs/ :: http://trac.agavi.org/wiki/Huomenta || 15:47 now i think about it, it all makes perfect sense :) 19:44 -!- Flukey [n=jhall@5aca2ee5.bb.sky.com] has joined #agavi 19:45 < marklar|omni> hahaha 19:45 < impl> omg 19:45 < impl> asdf 19:45 < Wombert> ? 19:45 < impl> Wombert: the last one is separated by || and all the other ones are by :: 19:45 < Wombert> omg! 19:46 < Wombert> that was mike! 19:46 < impl> D: D: D: 19:46 -!- Wombert changed the topic of #agavi to: Welcome to Agavi :: latest: 0.11.2 RC2 :: stable: 0.11.1 :: http://agavi.org/ :: want svn? use http://svn.agavi.org/branches/0.11/ :: http://ohloh.net/projects/5907 :: have a question? Just ask, and wait patiently, as patience is the key to happiness :: logs at http://agavi.org/irclogs/ :: http://trac.agavi.org/wiki/Huomenta :: 15:47 now i think about it, it all makes perfect sense :) 19:46 < impl> much better :> 19:46 < marklar|omni> heh 19:48 -!- MiNiMEE [n=denis@brln-4dbc12f5.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [] 19:49 -!- MerlinDMC [n=MerlinDM@dslb-084-063-145-137.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["Leaving..."] 19:50 < marklar|omni> my gf is sending me funnycat videos 19:50 < marklar|omni> rickroll time 20:00 -!- sikkle [n=sikk@bas4-montreal02-1096722769.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [] 20:06 < CIA-5> david * r2564 /branches/0.11/ (CHANGELOG src/controller/AgaviExecutionContainer.class.php): Fix #792: Namespace for disabled module forwarding information is wrong (was org.agavi.controller.forwards.disabled, is now org.agavi.controller.forwards.module_disabled) 20:09 < CIA-5> david * r2565 /trunk/ (CHANGELOG src/controller/AgaviExecutionContainer.class.php): merge [2550:2564/branches/0.11] 20:11 < CIA-5> david * r2566 /branches/impl-build_system/ (CHANGELOG src/controller/AgaviExecutionContainer.class.php): merge [2552:2565/trunk] 20:12 < CIA-5> david * r2567 /branches/david-xml_only_config_system/ (CHANGELOG src/controller/AgaviExecutionContainer.class.php): merge [2552:2566/trunk] 20:14 < CIA-5> david * r2568 /branches/david-system_action_refactoring/ (CHANGELOG src/controller/AgaviExecutionContainer.class.php): merge [2551:2567/trunk] 20:17 -!- vjoe [i=hugo@a83-132-37-125.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #agavi 20:21 < _cheerios> ah. box been stable since boot after going underclocking the ram. better stay like this now too... 20:22 < Wombert> even if you just calculate with 5 bucks for an hour of your work 20:22 < Wombert> I bet you're already into some four figure sum 20:23 < _cheerios> yeah, im at a loss on this one money-wise, deffo. 20:25 < _cheerios> only crash i got was when closing openoffice in kubuntu, googling tells me that's normal. i never use it anyhow. :) 20:25 < CIA-5> david * r2569 /branches/david-system_action_refactoring/ (2 files in 2 dirs): use containers for the rest of the forwards, too, and store everything in container attribs. refs #769 20:27 < Wombert> humm 20:27 < Wombert> that seems done 20:27 < Wombert> could merge 20:27 * Wombert ponders 20:28 < _cheerios> massive commit-runs you guys have done past few days 20:29 < Wombert> mh yeah well getting some stuff done 20:29 < Wombert> I wish I could do this five days a week :/ 20:29 < impl> I'm glad the build system is in a usable state now 20:30 < Wombert> <: 20:30 < impl> well, almost, anyway 20:32 < Wombert> yeah just the project wizard, right? 20:32 < impl> yeah 20:32 < impl> well 20:32 < Wombert> does it have an action wizard yet? 20:32 < impl> a couple of other remove ones 20:32 < Wombert> that also asks me for views etc? 20:32 < impl> nah, no wizards yet 20:32 < Wombert> remove is not soooo important I guess 20:33 < impl> I hope I can just do s 20:33 < E_mE[Stilgar> moooo 20:33 < impl> but they weren't working before 20:33 < Wombert> I think so impl 20:33 < impl> properties set inside the called targets don't seem to get set again outside them 20:33 < Wombert> should I do this circular call detection stuff for system actions? 20:33 * Wombert ponders 20:33 < impl> no 20:34 < impl> in fact we should just take that code out altogether :> 20:34 < Wombert> like... when the disabled_module action is in a disabled module ^^ 20:34 < Wombert> which 20:34 < impl> all of the code that checks whether the user does something stupid 20:35 < impl> like the maximum nesting limit and everything 20:35 < Wombert> alright then 20:42 < CIA-5> david * r2570 /trunk/ (6 files in 4 dirs): Merging in branch "david-system_action_refactoring", closes #769 (commit also updates CHANGELOG and RELEASE_NOTES) 20:43 < impl> nicee 20:52 -!- kaos|work_ [n=dominik@ppp-88-217-0-19.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has joined #agavi 20:53 -!- kaos|work_ is now known as kaos|work 20:55 -!- Strzalek [n=Strzalek@dmj178.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [] 21:13 < CIA-5> david * r2571 /branches/david-system_action_refactoring/: 21:13 < CIA-5> R.I.P. 21:13 < CIA-5> [2502:2570/david-system_action_refactoring] 21:13 < CIA-5> killed by a merge 21:13 < CIA-5> the repos will always remember you 21:14 < Wombert> oh crap 21:14 < Wombert> I ruined the headstone inscription 21:14 < Wombert> meh meh 21:16 < impl> how so? :P 21:16 < impl> oh, forgot /branches 21:18 < impl> Wombert: svn propedit svn:log --revprop -r2571 --editor-cmd vim /path/to/branches/blahblahb 21:18 < impl> :x 21:19 < Wombert> mmh 21:19 < Wombert> omg 21:19 < Wombert> http://bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=30622 21:19 < Wombert> ... 21:20 < Wombert> z 21:20 < Wombert> o 21:20 < Wombert> m 21:20 < Wombert> f 21:20 < Wombert> g 21:20 < ttj> Wombert: Watched the new Top Gear episodes? 21:20 < Wombert> ttj: absolutely 21:21 < Wombert> I hope the stunt driver dies soon 21:21 < ttj> Haha. 21:21 < ttj> Well, still, brilliant stuff. 21:21 < Wombert> and I hope they stop bringing two faggots at once for the interview 21:21 < Wombert> other than that... I liiiike! 21:21 < ttj> Ah. I just skipped the interviews. 21:21 < Wombert> actually 21:21 < ttj> But, I need an RS6 sedan. 21:22 < Wombert> I just realized that one of the guys in the first episode actually WAS a faggot 21:22 < _cheerios> i was just "so.. this is top gear" watching that ep 21:22 < Wombert> so my comment was pejorative 21:22 < _cheerios> a fatty and two gay guys. nice show! :p 21:22 < Wombert> sorry :p 21:22 < Wombert> _cheerios: they were both gay? nah 21:22 < ttj> A fatty? 21:22 < ttj> Who? 21:22 < Wombert> clarkson? :p 21:23 < _cheerios> the stunt guy, did you take a look at his stance? :) 21:23 < Wombert> the SIARPC segment is boring. always was. except for some exceptions 21:23 * impl squints 21:23 < ttj> Ah. 21:23 < ttj> Well, Jimmy Carr was great. 21:23 < Wombert> yes, among others 21:23 < Wombert> what I keep noticing is 21:23 < ttj> As was that Pop Idol guy. 21:23 < ttj> What's-his-name. 21:23 < Wombert> how their cutting and camera angles and filters etc gets better each season 21:23 < Wombert> music, too 21:23 < ttj> The music too. 21:23 < ttj> Yeah. 21:23 < Wombert> it's on such an incredibly high level quality-wise 21:24 < ttj> Lots of movie scores. 21:24 < _cheerios> the "almost" feel of the video replay was worth a chuckle. 21:24 < Wombert> lately, yeah 21:24 < ttj> They've always used lots of movie scores. 21:24 < Wombert> ttj: you saw davos -> stelvio last season? 21:24 < ttj> Hmm... 21:24 < Wombert> WAT 21:25 < Wombert> 911 GT3RS / Gallardo Superleggera/Aston V8 N24 21:25 < Wombert> omg!? 21:25 -!- nfq [n=nfq@165-195.5-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:25 < ttj> Ah! That one! 21:25 < ttj> I liked it how some poor bastard crashed his Lamborghini later. :P 21:25 < ttj> And sent the picture. :P 21:26 < Wombert> who what how where? 21:26 < ttj> Well, they were first looking for the perfect driving road. 21:26 < ttj> And told others to try it too. 21:26 < ttj> In the following episode some guy had sent some pictures of his road trip. 21:27 < Wombert> really? don't remember that 21:27 < ttj> I recall he had a Murcielago. Then a couple of pictures later the Lambo was in a ditch, upside down. :P 21:27 < Wombert> we're talking about http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyPNqpXq9ms this right? 21:27 < ttj> Yeah, but this was in the following episode. 21:28 < Wombert> ttj: okay. then can we please figure out a way to rob a bank, then buy... say... oh well whatever nice car, and take that trip? kthx 21:28 < ttj> I actually decided that I'm getting a Morgan Plus 8. 21:35 < Wombert> really 21:35 < Wombert> you know its made of wood 21:35 < Wombert> and it will break down all the time 21:37 < ttj> Pfft. 21:37 < ttj> I was in one in Brighton. 21:37 < _cheerios> that 7min vid was better than the whole new ep 21:37 < ttj> Surrounded by M5s and Bentley Continental GTs and everyone was staring at the Morgan. 21:38 < Wombert> _cheerios: there's four segments 21:38 < ttj> But! Someone buy me a BMW 335i coupé. 21:38 < Wombert> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02HRYxn2a0g&feature=related 21:38 < Wombert> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRkGDxBTSF4&feature=related 21:39 < Wombert> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeRN_JzFZX0&feature=related 21:39 < Wombert> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyPNqpXq9ms 21:39 < E_mE[Stilgar> 2CV ;D 21:39 < E_mE[Stilgar> with rocket pack on it hehe 21:39 < _cheerios> ttj: here you go http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2007/05/29/049723.1-lg.jpg 21:39 < Wombert> ttj: what were you doing in brighton 21:40 < Wombert> why were you sitting in a morgan 21:40 < Wombert> and why were you surrounded by bentleys 21:40 < Wombert> and why didn't you drag me along 21:40 < ttj> Wombert: I was sailing there. 21:40 < Wombert> you didn't drive it though did you? 21:40 < ttj> _cheerios: That's what you drive, huh? 21:41 < ttj> Nah, the guy didn't trust me. :P 21:41 < Wombert> lame 21:41 < ttj> Nah, he's a cool guy. 21:41 < ttj> His last name is Morgan. :P 21:41 < ttj> So obviously he also has to have a Morgan in his garage. :P 21:48 -!- _cheerios [n=goodrobo@dsl-hkibrasgw3-fe74fb00-140.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit ["sleep"] 21:55 -!- MerlinDMC [n=MerlinDM@dslb-084-063-145-137.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #agavi 22:23 < Wombert> hmm 22:23 < Wombert> impl: 22:23 < Wombert> I wanna supply three params to xsl files 22:23 < Wombert> config file path 22:23 -!- jwage [n=jwage@corp.centresource.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:23 < Wombert> env name 22:23 < Wombert> and ctx name 22:23 < Wombert> should I call them "agavi.environment" 22:23 < Wombert> or "agavi:environment" 22:23 < Wombert> oh wait 22:25 < Wombert> hmm 22:25 < Wombert> this colon stuff 22:25 < Wombert> hmm 22:25 < impl> um 22:25 < impl> how do you reference a parameter in XSL? 22:25 * vjoe bye 22:25 -!- vjoe [i=hugo@a83-132-37-125.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:26 < Wombert> $foo 22:26 < Wombert> it'd be $agavi:environment 22:26 < Wombert> which works 22:26 < Wombert> {$...} actually 22:26 < impl> I think that will confuse people if they decide to use a different namespace or something 22:27 < Wombert> works w/o the ns decl 22:27 < impl> namespace name, I mean 22:27 < impl> Yeah, I know 22:27 < impl> That's the problem ;p 22:30 < Wombert> why does it work without me declaring the namespace 22:30 < Wombert> I mesan 22:30 < Wombert> omg php 22:30 < Wombert> or is that libxmlk 22:30 -!- MerlinDMC [n=MerlinDM@dslb-084-063-145-137.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["Leaving..."] 22:33 < Wombert> so imma maek it agavi.lulz, impl? 22:33 < impl> Yeah, I think so 22:42 < CIA-5> david * r2572 /branches/david-xml_only_config_system/src/config/AgaviXmlConfigParser.class.php: Expose environment name, context name and config file path to XSLTProcessor, refs #709 22:47 -!- stachu [i=sayonara@enc170.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 23:03 < Wombert> ah fark 23:03 < Wombert> refs #710 actually 23:18 -!- sikkle [n=sikkle@modemcable089.215-81-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #agavi 23:22 -!- Flukey [n=jhall@5aca2ee5.bb.sky.com] has quit [] 23:41 -!- kaos|work [n=dominik@ppp-88-217-0-19.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has quit [] --- Day changed Thu Jul 03 2008 00:08 -!- IcyT is now known as icyt 01:09 -!- shoan [n=shoan@59.92.174.101] has joined #agavi 01:19 -!- Wombert [n=Wombert@dslb-088-066-171-072.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [] 01:47 -!- sikkle [n=sikkle@modemcable089.215-81-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [] 03:06 -!- jwage [n=jwage@c-98-193-184-47.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #agavi 04:15 -!- Netsplit kornbluth.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: Rick, marklar|omni, saracen, E_mE[Stilgar, rick111_afk, shoan, E_mE, Arme[0], Spica, CIA-5, (+11 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them) --- Log closed Thu Jul 03 04:17:23 2008 --- Log opened Thu Jul 03 04:17:28 2008 04:17 -!- Chuckwal1a [n=chuckwal@agavi.org] has joined #agavi 04:17 -!- Irssi: #agavi: Total of 23 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 22 normal] 04:17 -!- Irssi: Join to #agavi was synced in 8 secs 04:17 -!- Chuckwalla [n=chuckwal@agavi.org] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:02 < marklar|omni> ohai 05:03 -!- sikkle [n=sikkle@modemcable089.215-81-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #agavi 05:17 -!- shoan [n=shoan@59.92.174.101] has quit [] 05:34 -!- jwage [n=jwage@c-98-193-184-47.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has left #agavi [] 05:46 -!- MerlinDMC [n=MerlinDM@p578b1081.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #agavi 05:53 -!- jwage [n=jwage@c-98-193-184-47.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #agavi 06:08 -!- sikkle [n=sikkle@modemcable089.215-81-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [] 06:09 < v-dogg> huomenta 06:17 -!- shoan [n=shoan@122.166.1.168] has joined #agavi 06:19 < shoan> huomenta 06:26 < MerlinDMC> huomenta 06:52 -!- jwage [n=jwage@c-98-193-184-47.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [] 07:00 -!- Wombert [n=Wombert@dslb-088-066-171-072.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #agavi 07:07 -!- Flukey [n=jhall@92.40.242.24.sub.mbb.three.co.uk] has joined #agavi 07:09 < E_mE> huomenta 07:12 -!- _cheerios [n=goodrobo@dsl-hkibrasgw3-fe74fb00-140.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #agavi 07:12 < _cheerios> huomenta 07:17 < Wombert> orly 07:20 -!- Arme[0] [n=Arme[N]@unaffiliated/armen/x-394205] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:25 -!- Flukey [n=jhall@92.40.242.24.sub.mbb.three.co.uk] has quit [] 07:45 -!- liutis [n=codecop@78-61-197-230.static.zebra.lt] has joined #agavi 07:48 -!- Flukey [n=jhall@80.4.120.163] has joined #agavi 08:04 -!- liutis [n=codecop@78-61-197-230.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:33 -!- Rendez [n=Rendez@180.Red-80-38-116.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #agavi 08:53 < MikeSeth> http://squashnstretch.googlepages.com/blog_tf2.jpg 08:54 < MikeSeth> marklar|omni: http://squashnstretch.googlepages.com/blog_tf2.jpg 08:54 < MikeSeth> marklar|omni: http://squashnstretch.googlepages.com/blog_tf2.jpg 08:54 < MikeSeth> marklar|omni: http://squashnstretch.googlepages.com/blog_tf2.jpg 08:54 < MikeSeth> marklar|omni: http://squashnstretch.googlepages.com/blog_tf2.jpg 08:57 -!- impl [n=impl@atheme/member/impl] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:58 -!- impl [n=impl@atheme/member/impl] has joined #agavi 08:58 < MikeSeth> impl: http://squashnstretch.googlepages.com/blog_tf2.jpg 09:02 < Wombert> mildly lulz 09:02 < _cheerios> does not compute 09:03 < shoan> i dont get it either 09:06 < MikeSeth> Wombert: chat tonite? 09:07 < Wombert> yesplz 09:12 < Wombert> gah 09:12 < Wombert> this xml namespace stuff 09:12 < Wombert> beh 09:19 < Wombert> meh meh meh 09:33 -!- stachu [i=sayonara@enc170.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #agavi 09:39 -!- _cheerios [n=goodrobo@dsl-hkibrasgw3-fe74fb00-140.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit ["ikea"] 09:41 -!- stachu [i=sayonara@enc170.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 09:51 < impl> Wombert: agavi project should do the same as agavi project-create except create default actions/views/whatever right? 09:52 < Wombert> err 09:52 < impl> s/except/plus also/ 09:52 < impl> and should it prompt the user for the names, like the current build system? 10:08 < Wombert> yeah 10:08 < Wombert> or 10:08 < Wombert> hm 10:08 < Wombert> doesn't have to, I guess... 10:08 < Wombert> well 10:09 < Wombert> its mostly about the module name, not the action names, I guess 10:09 < Wombert> right, v-dogg? 10:11 < v-dogg> wotwotwot 10:11 < impl> Wombert: dunno, however you'd like it 10:11 -!- trophaeum [n=trophaeu@59.167.212.13] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:14 < v-dogg> so "project-create" is more or less like "project" currently? 10:14 < v-dogg> and what would "project" do? 10:15 < Wombert> there is no "project" atm afaik 10:16 -!- trophaeum [n=trophaeu@59.167.212.13] has joined #agavi 10:17 * Wombert smacks hay fever 10:18 -!- Spica_ [n=miikka@thule.yok.utu.fi] has joined #agavi 10:20 < v-dogg> Spicachu 10:28 -!- stachu [i=sayonara@enc170.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #agavi 10:31 -!- Spica [n=miikka@thule.yok.utu.fi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:02 -!- Rendez [n=Rendez@180.Red-80-38-116.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [":: www.scopealley.com ::"] 11:07 -!- Wombert_ [n=Wombert@dslb-088-066-184-033.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #agavi 11:09 -!- stachu [i=sayonara@enc170.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 11:16 -!- Wombert [n=Wombert@dslb-088-066-171-072.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:20 < Wombert_> zomg 11:20 < Wombert_> factories.xml = fail 11:21 < Wombert_> why doesn't it have a plural container tag for all that stuff 11:21 < Wombert_> zomg zomg zomg 11:21 -!- Wombert_ is now known as Wombert 11:21 < impl> change it ö 11:22 < v-dogg> womb womb womb 11:23 < v-dogg> tell me, good sir 11:23 < v-dogg> what was the proper way to define custom datetime formats? 11:23 < v-dogg> was there some other way than traslation domains? 11:23 < MikeSeth> v-dogg: you may want to stop calling people spics and wombs :> 11:24 < v-dogg> nah :) 11:29 -!- nfq [n=nfq@165-195.5-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #agavi 11:30 -!- vjoe [i=hugo@89.155.226.3] has joined #agavi 11:39 -!- trophaeum [n=trophaeu@59.167.212.13] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:39 -!- trophaeum [n=trophaeu@59.167.212.13] has joined #agavi 11:39 < MerlinDMC> I'm currently looking at user authentication: addCredential() uses the storage subsystem now if in factories.xml the storage class is set to AgaviSessionStorage the credentials are only persistent in session or is the AgaviSecurityUser class using another storage backend? 11:47 < v-dogg> it uses session storage 11:49 < MerlinDMC> thx 11:52 -!- nfq [n=nfq@165-195.5-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:03 < impl> Wombert: figured out that problem with the user-defined elements not working right 12:04 < Wombert> ? 12:04 < impl> for some reason (during parsing I guess), it gets created as UnknownElement instead of the task class 12:04 < impl> and then it gets converted later 12:04 < impl> but that doesn't happen the second time around 12:04 < impl> so it just b0rks 12:04 < impl> anyway I just got rid of the initialize target altogether 12:04 < impl> and I think it'll work now 12:12 -!- stachu [i=sayonara@enc170.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #agavi 12:38 -!- Strzalek [n=Strzalek@dlx41.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #agavi 12:39 < impl> vjoe: I don't think so, but take a look at this patch: http://trac.agavi.org/attachment/ticket/614/chapter3-first-sections.patch 12:39 < vjoe> huh? 12:39 < vjoe> hi by the way 12:58 -!- MrJeep [n=MrJeep@modemcable136.46-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #agavi 12:58 < MrJeep> morning 13:01 -!- MrJeep [n=MrJeep@modemcable136.46-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 13:05 < impl> vjoe: sorry, was referring to something from like a day ago by accent 13:16 -!- stachu [i=sayonara@enc170.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 13:16 -!- stachu [i=sayonara@enc170.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #agavi 13:18 < impl> Wombert: for the action wizard, let the user specify what they want for the view names, or just create a Success view? 13:18 < Wombert> nah, ask for the view names to create 13:18 < Wombert> as it is now, basically 13:18 < impl> okey 13:18 < v-dogg> absolutely 13:19 -!- sikkle [n=sikk@bas4-montreal02-1096722769.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #agavi 13:20 -!- jwage [n=jwage@corp.centresource.com] has joined #agavi 13:22 * Wombert kicks xml 13:22 < MikeSeth> Wombert: clan raep tonight? 13:22 < MikeSeth> ;> 13:22 < Wombert> hmm 13:22 < Wombert> nah 13:33 -!- _cheerios [n=goodrobo@dsl-hkibrasgw3-fe74fb00-140.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #agavi 13:34 < _cheerios> ikea visits are exhausting x_X 13:34 < ttj> Ikea visitors should be castrated. 13:35 -!- Strzalek [n=Strzalek@dlx41.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has left #agavi [] 13:35 < _cheerios> they serve hot dogs for 50cents on your way out, and soft icecream too! mm 13:49 < E_mE> MikeSeth: with emacs can you doing the following? swap this line of code "$this->cats = $array['cats'];" to "$array['cats'] = $this->cats;" ?? 13:49 < E_mE> using the "=" as a pivot? 13:50 < E_mE> _cheerios: whole hot dogs? with buns and all? 13:50 < ttj> Mmm... Buns... 13:50 < MikeSeth> I'd teach a macro for this 13:50 < ttj> E_mE: Regexps? 13:52 < E_mE> how would you manage it with regex? 13:53 < E_mE> teach a macro.. that sounds interesting 13:53 < E_mE> what ive the value wasn't always cats, might be dogs, dear etc 13:53 < MikeSeth> E_mE: yeah you can teach emacs macros, then edit them and have emacs repeat them 13:53 < impl> M-x replace-regexp 13:53 < impl> would work 13:54 < impl> assuming you don't do anything really funky 13:54 < MikeSeth> but regexps are ugly :> 13:54 * impl shrugs :P 13:54 < ttj> "How would I go about embedding a nail into a piece of wood?" "Use a hammer." "But hammers are ugly... :(" 13:54 < impl> ouch :> 13:55 * MikeSeth smacks ttj 13:55 < MikeSeth> invalid analogy 13:55 < _cheerios> E_mE: small bun with a long dog 13:55 < MikeSeth> in our case there's more than just regexps :> 13:55 < impl> you could use a sledgehammer 13:55 < impl> or a teapot 13:56 < ttj> Sledge_hammer_. 13:56 < impl> THEY ARE DIFFERENT 13:56 < ttj> Hammer. 13:56 < impl> Wikipedia has a separate article on it, so it's a different thing. 13:56 * E_mE runs away from the cross firee 13:56 < E_mE> ill have to check out emacs macros 13:57 < ttj> Or... Switch to a proper editor. Like vi. *ducks* 13:58 < impl> blasphemy 13:58 < E_mE> i use nano atm for console things 13:58 * ttj throws stones at impl 13:58 * impl eats 13:58 < E_mE> but im starting to outstrech its abilities 13:59 < ttj> Interesting. Didn't know that moron, imbecile, and idiot are all tied to IQ ranges. 13:59 < ttj> 51-70, 26-50, and 0-25, respectively. 14:01 < E_mE> IQ tests are bullshit 14:01 < E_mE> doesn't describe peoples intelligence 14:02 < E_mE> unless it implies that everyones head works the same way 14:02 < E_mE> you* 14:02 < impl> Well, that's why they are 'standardized' 14:02 < impl> but tbh Binet can go fuck himself 14:04 < Wombert> lunch 14:04 * Wombert & 14:05 < impl> bit late :> 14:11 < Wombert> oh 14:11 < Wombert> I just found the glass of apple soda I've been looking for for two hours 14:11 < Wombert> meh 14:11 < Wombert> lunch, rly 14:11 * Wombert & 14:15 < MikeSeth> Wombert: ZOMG 14:15 < ttj> "Lunch? You gotta be kidding! Lunch is for wimps!" 14:16 < ttj> Speaking of which, the sequel to Wall Street will be out next year! \o/ 14:18 < MikeSeth> ttj: have YOU seen Clerks 2? 14:19 < ttj> Yeah. Quite a while ago, though. 14:19 < ttj> No wait. 14:19 < ttj> Was it Clerks. 14:19 < ttj> No, it was the original Clerks. 14:19 < MikeSeth> Watch Clerks 2! 14:19 < MikeSeth> probably the best movie of the year 14:19 < ttj> Will do, if I can get my hands on it. 14:20 < E_mE> Ah Clerk is great :D 14:20 < E_mE> Jay and Silent bob are great ;) 14:26 < MikeSeth> ttj: mininova.org :> 14:27 < MikeSeth> E_mE: have you seen the new movie? Watch it it's incredible 14:30 -!- shoan [n=shoan@122.166.1.168] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 14:31 < E_mE> ill attempt to at some point 14:47 -!- MerlinDMC [n=MerlinDM@p578b1081.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [] 15:23 -!- MrJeep [n=MrJeep@modemcable136.46-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #agavi 15:26 * E_mE Hugs and Strokes his Directed acyclic graph 15:28 < impl> GAH, I can't understand how Phing can possibly work so stupidly 15:28 < impl> this is ridiculous 15:28 < impl> the entire architecture is just wrong 15:36 * Wombert stabs xml 15:46 < Wombert> *thunder* 15:46 < Wombert> *lightning* 15:48 < impl> *PHING* 16:04 -!- Wombert_ [n=Wombert@dslb-088-066-183-253.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #agavi 16:11 -!- Wombert [n=Wombert@dslb-088-066-184-033.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 16:15 -!- Wombert_ is now known as Wombert 16:27 < E_mE> how can i display a href + the text inside the with xpath 16:29 < E_mE> i thought about concat() but it doesnt work 16:30 < E_mE> just returns the first row 16:32 < Wombert> eh? 16:33 < Wombert> you need evaluate() then, not query() 16:34 -!- erisco [n=erisco@brisco.kent.net] has joined #agavi 16:45 < E_mE> byeeeee 16:47 < erisco> bye 16:47 < erisco> !huomenta 16:47 -!- jwage is now known as jonwage 16:57 -!- kaos|work_ [n=dominik@ppp-82-135-76-191.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has joined #agavi 16:58 -!- kaos|work_ is now known as kaos|work 17:03 < kaos|work> impl 17:03 < kaos|work> ping 17:08 -!- Strzalek [n=Strzalek@dlx41.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #agavi 17:13 -!- Flukey [n=jhall@80.4.120.163] has quit [] 17:35 -!- Arme[N] [n=Arme[N]@unaffiliated/armen/x-394205] has joined #aga