--- Log opened Tue Jul 01 00:00:08 2008
--- Day changed Tue Jul 01 2008
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00:02 < erisco> hey, what is the point of the modpub directory?
00:02 < erisco> and huomenta daveFre
00:02 < daveFre> images/css/js
00:05 < daveFre> Some of my co-workers and I were messing with eclipse and thought it would be interesting to have a plugin that would make the use of agavi simple. Make it like Visual studio and ASP.NET
00:07 < daveFre> Are there any plans out there to create an integration with an existing IDE
00:07 < daveFre> ?
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00:36 < erisco> I am trying to get the rewriting working (what a pain)
00:37 < erisco> when I go to http://localhost/project/pub/ everything works fine. when I go to http://localhost/project/pub/foo all the links break
00:37 < erisco> looking at the generated base href it changed from http://localhost/project/pub/ to http://localhost/
00:37 < erisco> why? and how do I fix this?
00:49 < erisco> is there anywhere in a config where you can specify the basehref?
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04:32 < v-dogg> huomenta
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05:13 < _cheerios> huomenta
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07:03 < _cheerios> http://blog.adaniels.nl/articles/how-i-php-using-defaults-for-input-arguments/
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07:38 < E_mE> huomenta!
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07:44 < marklar|omni> zomg
07:44 < marklar|omni> d700 announced
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07:51 < _cheerios> a mere $3000? :)
07:52 < marklar|omni> for a ff d3 equiv?
07:52 < marklar|omni> thats cheap
07:52 < marklar|omni> and I'm a canon guy
07:52 < marklar|omni> heh
07:52 < marklar|omni> anyway, want. :(
07:53 < marklar|omni> weird part is the builtin flash
07:55 < _cheerios> http://imaging.nikon.com/products/imaging/lineup/digitalcamera/slr/d700/sample.htm
07:55 < _cheerios> that's nice detail, checking the originals
07:55 < marklar|omni> url is bork for me
07:55 < marklar|omni> ah there
07:55 < marklar|omni> why does the pagetitle say "d300 sample images"
07:56 < marklar|omni> template copypasta :<
07:57 < _cheerios> starting to see too much hair on the human face at this res :D:D
07:57 < marklar|omni> yea, heh
07:58 < marklar|omni> I liked the focus in the park pic
07:59 < marklar|omni> tilt indicator ftw
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08:03 < impl> MikeSeth: branch kthx
08:04 < impl> MikeSeth: and yes :>
08:19 < MikeSeth> impl: oh hai
08:19 < MikeSeth> also huomental minna-san
08:20 < MikeSeth> impl: it would be nice to split the build file into a number of included files
08:20 < MikeSeth> impl: also the top level tasks should be broken apart into basic and advanced
08:20 < MikeSeth> you don't want people to do ``agavi help'' and get thirty foo-bar-cat-fish type instructions
08:22 < E_mE> break it up into sub-helps id say
08:23 < E_mE> so agavi help module shows all sub options?
08:24 < Wombert> omnom
08:24 < Wombert> yeah sounds like a good idea E_mE
08:25 < impl> MikeSeth: basic and advanced?
08:25 < impl> MikeSeth: it depends on whether I can get phing to behave
08:25 < impl> it doesn't like it when I separate things
08:26 < E_mE> thanks Wombert :)
08:26 < impl> E_mE: it's not feasible because phing takes all arguments as separate targets
08:27 < impl> although I guess the frontend could override that behavior ... somehow, maybe :
08:27 < impl> :\
08:27 < Wombert> yeah lame phin
08:27 < Wombert> was thinking the same impl
08:27 < Wombert> but that would be ugly hax rite?
08:27 < impl> It's already ugly hax
08:28 < MikeSeth> frankly
08:28 < MikeSeth> phing is just bad :>
08:29 < impl> http://xomios.transtruct.org/hg/file/6e633a44d57a/util/conductor/ http://xomios.transtruct.org/hg/file/6e633a44d57a/build.conduct
08:29 < impl> :<
08:29 < v-dogg> should we drop it? phing is not bad for build scripts but what we need is somewhat complex UI logic
08:30 < impl> v-dogg: the problem, of course, is that we need something to replace it with
08:30 < impl> and also that I don't feel like rewriting this stuff really
08:30 < MikeSeth> yeah the new buildscript > old buildscript
08:30 < MikeSeth> impl: the whole of it is in build.xml now right?
08:31 < impl> MikeSeth: yeah
08:32 < v-dogg> what about a separate frontend (written in php)?
08:32 < impl> that does what? :s
08:33 < v-dogg> which would utilize existing phing stuff but with better UI
08:34 < impl> yuck :(
08:34 < MikeSeth> v-dogg: the idea of PHP UI for CLI/GUI freaks me out
08:34 < MikeSeth> srsly
08:34 < E_mE> v-dogg: like a PHP entry script which calls phing scripts?
08:34 < v-dogg> E_mE: yes
08:35 < E_mE> but the php enttry srcript can be customised to agavi specs
08:35 < impl> it's not pretty to do that
08:35 < MikeSeth> no it aint
08:35 < MikeSeth> heh
08:35 < E_mE> :)
08:36 < v-dogg> of course it's not but like said, phing doesn't handle modularity too well
08:36 < v-dogg> nor UI
08:37 < v-dogg> MikeSeth: what would you suggest? I don't think we want anymore dependencies so PHP (+bat/sh) is all we have IMO
08:39 < v-dogg> impl: I realize it might be too late for this discussion and I'm truly sorry I haven't had the time to participate earlier :(
08:40 < impl> well
08:40 < impl> mh
08:40 < impl> I mean, I'm not opposed to dropping it and making it better, but I need something to replace it with
08:40 < v-dogg> yup
08:41 < v-dogg> and all options suck :)
08:41 < impl> OTOH, I added some nice features that allows you to have automatically-imported project-specific build.xml files as well as the ability to add listeners (in build.xml) that can wait for changes on targets, tasks, and output messages
08:43 < impl> maybe that's sufficient, dunno
08:53 * Wombert shudders
08:53 < Wombert> srsly
08:53 < Wombert> the new one
08:53 < Wombert> > old one
08:53 < Wombert> impl just rewrote it :p
08:53 < Wombert> I think it's a vast improvement over what we have atm
08:54 < marklar|omni> needs more cowbell
08:55 < impl> D:
08:55 < MikeSeth> v-dogg: I say stick with the command line interface for 1.0
08:56 < MikeSeth> the buildfile itself can be cut up into parts
08:56 < MikeSeth> other than this no problem imo
08:56 < impl> only if phing allows me to do this
08:57 < impl> maybe, ideally, in the future we have the entire thing done as an Agavi application
08:57 < MikeSeth> (though srsly I hate Propel style tasks like project-defenestrate-leverage-synergy etc)
08:57 < impl> that would be neat
08:58 < impl> then we could have a Web interface for managing projects too and stuff
08:58 < v-dogg> MikeSeth: and the php frontend I talked about would be just that - a command line interface for phing scripts. and in the future we/someone could write whatever interfaces for those scripts
08:58 < MikeSeth> impl: could be a module in the stock app
08:58 < MikeSeth> v-dogg: yeah, possible, though I am not sure php is the best platform for this kind of task
08:59 < impl> MikeSeth: I dunno, don't really want to mix that with real user-code I don't think
08:59 < v-dogg> it's definitely not the best option but what other options do we have?
09:01 < impl> I think we will see how this one goes and if it doesn't work well for the end-users, we'll deal with it then
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09:22 < Wombert> +1
09:22 < Wombert> commit commit commit :>
09:22 < MikeSeth> wat
09:24 < impl> it isn't done yet :<
09:24 < v-dogg> stachu: you asked something yesterday but left before I got to answer. what did you ask?-)
09:25 < v-dogg> ah, APC
09:26 < v-dogg> 20:01 < stachu> could you tell me something about it, how to use it, what cache?\ etc\
09:27 < v-dogg> you install and configure it (installation help can be found from the source tar ball))
09:28 < CIA-5> david * r2548 /branches/0.11/ (CHANGELOG src/exception/templates/shiny.php): Fixed #791: Markup is escaped by accident in shiny exception template
09:34 < Wombert> guys
09:34 < Wombert> in exception pages
09:34 < Wombert> I just fixed it so that it will show the throw new ... line at the top
09:34 < Wombert> always
09:34 < Wombert> now the question is
09:35 < Wombert> should it show the second entry by default?
09:35 < Wombert> that's more useful than the throw... part, right?
09:37 * Wombert pokes v-dogg and MikeSeth
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09:44 * ttj pokes Wombert
09:44 < CIA-5> david * r2549 /branches/0.11/ (3 files in 2 dirs): Fix #790: Exception templates incorrectly fix information about exception origin
09:44 < Wombert> ohai ttj
09:44 < Wombert> sup
09:44 < ttj> Not much, but I demand coffee mugs! :P
09:44 < ttj> You?
09:46 < impl> MUGS :O
09:49 < MikeSeth> http://www.reddit.com/info/6pllz/comments/c04j9zp
09:50 < impl> kekeke
09:50 < stachu> v-dogg: so apc will just speed up my app (includes will work faster), and these functions in manual are only add-ons?
09:51 < stachu> im using agavi cache and my first thought was that i have to rewrite this cache system to support these functions
09:52 < impl> http://www.lolcatbible.com/index.php?title=Lolhymns#Amazing_Grace
09:52 < impl> this is awesome
09:53 < CIA-5> david * r2550 /trunk/ (24 files in 15 dirs): merge [2519:2549/branches/0.11]
10:01 < CIA-5> david * r2551 /trunk/tests2/ (3 files in 2 dirs): fixed tests
10:07 < CIA-5> david * r2552 /branches/impl-build_system/ (25 files in 16 dirs): merge [2513:2551/trunk]
10:08 < CIA-5> david * r2553 /branches/david-xml_only_config_system/ (25 files in 16 dirs): merge [2512:2551/trunk]
10:09 < CIA-5> david * r2554 /branches/david-system_action_refactoring/ (25 files in 16 dirs): merge [2514#:2551/trunk]
10:10 < CIA-5> david * r2555 /branches/david-stampede_protection/ (25 files in 16 dirs): merge [2511:2549/branches/0.11]
10:11 < Wombert> I'm in ur branchez syncing your codez kthx
10:12 < impl> ohai thx
10:14 < Wombert> so
10:14 < Wombert> who tested rc1 yet
10:14 * Wombert smacks MikeSeth
10:14 * Wombert smacks v-dogg
10:14 * Wombert smacks marklar|omni
10:14 * Wombert smacks ttj
10:14 * Wombert smacks E_mE
10:14 * ttj dodges.
10:15 < E_mE> ill test it this evening with dnbnoize Wombert :) promise :)
10:15 < E_mE> not had much time sorry :'(
10:15 < MerlinDMC> Wombert, played with it at the WE ... but not very komplex cases :P
10:16 < Wombert> mostly concerned about people on 0.11.1... just to be sure 0.11.2 doesn't break anything
10:20 < _cheerios> moved to 0.11/r2547 earlier today, nothing came up (bar app/cache required manual cleanup).
10:21 < _cheerios> iow, the usual.
10:22 < Wombert> :>
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10:24 < LBO_> huomenta
10:24 < E_mE> oh today will be ny first attempt at merging in svn... oh the worrys :)
10:24 < LBO_> how Agavi works when "use_routing" is off?
10:25 < Wombert> what do you want to do, LBO_
10:25 < LBO_> is it just rewrite off?
10:25 < LBO_> nothing, I just want to know :D
10:25 < impl> ?module=Foo&action=Bar¶m1=baz¶m2=quux
10:25 < Wombert> the rewrite is just for removing index.php
10:26 < LBO_> thank u
10:27 < LBO_> how can i generate url then?
10:27 < LBO_> hardcode? or pass an array of module, action and params?
10:27 < LBO_> to $ro-gen?
10:28 < Wombert> no it still generates a url for you
10:28 < Wombert> you can still have a routing.xml with normal urls
10:29 < Wombert> but that's all lame
10:29 < Wombert> do not use it
10:29 < LBO_> no no, I wont... its just nice to know things like that
10:30 < Wombert> its a useless feature. really :>
10:33 < LBO_> I was curious
10:37 < LBO_> architecture of SecurityRbacUser is great :)
10:37 < LBO_> it was too easy to plug-in reading credentials from database
10:37 < LBO_> adding credentials*
10:39 < LBO_> and roles too....
10:40 < LBO_> now my security user uses read its roles and additional credentails (like blog.post.update.{someidentifier}) from DB
10:40 < LBO_> and it works perfect
10:41 < impl> awesome :D
10:41 < LBO_> i mean, building things lik that in fws like cake, CI was messy
10:41 < v-dogg> Wombert: upgraded a project I'm working on yesterday
10:41 < v-dogg> no issues so far
10:41 < LBO_> impl: :P
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10:43 < Flukey> hey folks
10:43 < LBO_> i was wondering.. i found some task (google summer code) about building scafolding
10:44 < LBO_> how do u want to ahieve that if models are independent from their implementation (service, db)
10:45 < v-dogg> stachu: (sorry for the delayed answer) yup, apc is normally completely transparent. it caches and uses the "compiled" php code automatically
10:49 < v-dogg> Wombert: and another thing, I realized that autoload.xml is (of course) parsed after config.php so I can put AgaviConfig::set('my.components_path',...); in there and use that in my external autoload.xml (which is included via xinclude)
10:49 < v-dogg> so cool :)
10:52 < Wombert> uh yeah
10:52 < Wombert> I said so yesterday :D
10:52 < Wombert> but I thought you didn't like that or something
10:53 < v-dogg> you did? sorry mate, I missed that :)
10:53 < Wombert> oh
10:53 < Wombert> I didn't
10:53 < Wombert> I just thought it
10:53 < Wombert> :>
10:53 < v-dogg> heh
10:54 * Wombert pets
10:54 < v-dogg> I want a blogging solutions that doesn't make my head hurt (and more time to actually write stuff) :/
10:55 < v-dogg> MikeSeth: when will you write tequila ;)
10:56 < E_mE> biiiii
10:57 < marklar|omni> ohai2u
10:58 < CIA-5> david * r2556 /branches/david-system_action_refactoring/src/ (3 files in 2 dirs): refactoring part 1: set info into container attributes for some internal forwards, check for core.available in AgaviController::dispatch(), not AgaviExecutionContainer::execute(), refs #769
10:59 < Wombert> lunch
10:59 * Wombert &
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10:59 < stachu> so what is better eAccelerator or apc?
11:00 < marklar|omni> Tomeika Broussard thought it was so absurd when she overheard her supervisor refer to her as a "reggin" that she just laughed. Then she realized it was the n-word spelled backward
11:00 < marklar|omni> haaha
11:03 < v-dogg> stachu: APC used to be more stable (I hear). not sure what the situation is nowadays
11:04 < MikeSeth> v-dogg: actually I am going to write a tutorial
11:04 < MikeSeth> v-dogg: Wombert hireds me to do that
11:04 < MikeSeth> v-dogg: it'll be building an Agavi blog app :>
11:08 < _cheerios> nothing like a nearby firealarm to stay awake. can't see no smoke anywhere, tho.
11:10 < _cheerios> MikeSeth: is there a deadline? :)
11:10 < MikeSeth> dog bless
11:10 < marklar|omni> haimaik
11:10 < MikeSeth> ohai
11:15 < marklar|omni> sup
11:16 < MikeSeth> belliful o'meat
11:17 < marklar|omni> samehear
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11:24 < marklar|omni> 300g burgarrrrrrr
11:27 < v-dogg> I need find a manual writing tool for my non-technical colleague... easy to use, easy to publish (web + printer), easy internal linking, easy everything...
11:27 < v-dogg> BAH
11:29 < v-dogg> MikeSeth: were you working on some DITA system?
11:32 < MikeSeth> v-dogg: I am
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11:38 < v-dogg> MikeSeth: is it some wysiwyg kinda thing or community app or what?
11:38 < MikeSeth> v-dogg: it's a documentation format like docbook
11:38 < MikeSeth> v-dogg: there are some tools to edit it WYSIWYG
11:39 < MikeSeth> v-dogg: and there's a number of interactive applications for dita editing online
11:39 < MikeSeth> Wombert: give him sum linkz
11:39 < Wombert> dita is like a modular docbook
11:39 < Wombert> xmlmind has support, apparently
11:39 < v-dogg> sure sure sure, I know what DITA is
11:40 < v-dogg> but the system you guys are building
11:40 < MikeSeth> im not building a system
11:40 < v-dogg> ah
11:40 < MikeSeth> im just writing dox
11:40 < v-dogg> roger
11:43 < Wombert> we will build a system eventually
11:43 < Wombert> btw
11:43 < Wombert> xmlmind has wysiwyg, mike
11:43 < Wombert> just checked
11:45 < MikeSeth> Wombert: for a local document, yes
11:46 < MikeSeth> but you cant render it in context of a buildscript and external configuration/documents
11:46 < Wombert> http://www.ditausers.org/tutorials/ ftw
11:46 < MikeSeth> ya
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11:49 < marklar|omni> lolez
11:49 < v-dogg> just need a suitable tool for my colleague
11:50 < Wombert> adobe fa
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11:50 < Wombert> ramemaker
11:50 < Wombert> :p
11:50 < v-dogg> ugh...
11:50 < v-dogg> don't know what it is like nowadays but some old version we have is hideous
12:03 < marklar|omni> heh
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12:09 < impl> v-dogg: notepad :>
12:10 < v-dogg> no, not for this guy :)
12:10 < v-dogg> he used to write manuals with power point :)
12:10 < impl> D:
12:10 < impl> That's bad :<
12:11 < Wombert> lulz
12:11 < v-dogg> but not uncommon
12:11 < v-dogg> sadly
12:13 < marklar|omni> heh
12:13 < marklar|omni> it's better than no manuals at all
12:15 < MikeSeth> v-dogg: I hope the cops don't find his body
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13:10 < erisco> I am still having that base href problem... anyone have ideas?
13:12 < marklar|omni> http://www.reddit.com/info/6pp4f/comments/
13:12 < marklar|omni> wtf
13:12 < erisco> marklar|omni, I don't want to impede, but do you know how to configure the base href in the routing?
13:13 < MikeSeth> erisco:
13:13 < erisco> MikeSeth, I know, and that is returning the wrong base href
13:13 < erisco> so is there any place I can set it?
13:13 < erisco> IMO its a bug that it is not detecting it properly
13:13 < impl> It should be automagically determined
13:14 < erisco> I am working with rewriting, as that looks nicer
13:14 < erisco> when I go to http://localhost/project/pub/ the base href is /project/pub/ which is fine
13:14 < erisco> when I go to http://localhost/project/pub/foo the base href is http://localhost/
13:15 < erisco> which breaks everything
13:15 < impl> o_O
13:15 < v-dogg> what's your RewriteBase (.htaccess)?
13:16 < MikeSeth> erisco: "wrong"?
13:16 < MikeSeth> uh wait
13:16 < MikeSeth> what
13:16 < marklar|omni> yea wtf
13:16 < MikeSeth> erisco: plz check RewriteBase in .htaccess kth
13:16 < MikeSeth> x
13:16 < MikeSeth> erisco: your first case is wrong
13:16 < MikeSeth> not the last one
13:17 < erisco> MikeSeth, the first case is actually http://localhost/project/pub/
13:17 < v-dogg> or not
13:17 < v-dogg> yeah
13:17 < erisco> MikeSeth, I just got lazy
13:17 < erisco> RewriteBase /project/pub/
13:18 < impl> Are you using some funny SAPI or Webserver?
13:18 < erisco> just apache2
13:18 < erisco> do you want to me pastebin a dump of the $_SERVER array?
13:18 < impl> yeah... from /project/pub and /project/pub/foo if you can
13:19 < MikeSeth> erisco: 1) check if there's an .htaccess in /project/ (above pub/) 2) put some garbage in pub/.htaccess and try opening pub/foo - an error 500 must appear, if it doesnt then your .htaccess isnt being read
13:19 < erisco> MikeSeth, I am not using htaccess
13:20 < erisco> MikeSeth, I am using the proper internal configuration
13:20 -!- Xylakant [n=fgilcher@obc-r22-325-217-66-62-6.exozet.com] has joined #agavi
13:20 < Xylakant> huomenta
13:20 < impl> oh hai
13:21 < Xylakant> anyone time for a routing question?
13:21 < MikeSeth> erisco: then why do you have pub/?
13:21 < MikeSeth> erisco: alias /project /project/pub, RewriteBase /
13:21 < impl> Xylakant: dunno, ask :<
13:22 < MikeSeth> erisco: also do note, moving RewriteRule directives from .htaccess to server config does not work - they require manual adjustment
13:22 < erisco> MikeSeth, according to apache's docs they should be identical
13:22 < v-dogg> no, you need extra stuff
13:22 < erisco> MikeSeth, and if I was a whizz at apache2 configuration, which I'm not, I'd know how to alias that :P
13:22 < MikeSeth> erisco: no, IIRC they differ in preceding slash
13:22 < MikeSeth> lemme fetch you a sample conf
13:23 < MikeSeth> Alias /speedcash /home/yossi/public_html/speedcash/pub
13:23 < MikeSeth> SetEnv AUTOBONUS_ENVIRONMENT development
13:23 < MikeSeth>
13:24 < Xylakant> ok, I have routes that set the output type depending on how the url ends
13:24 -!- jwage [n=jwage@c-98-193-184-47.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #agavi
13:24 < MikeSeth> then of course RewriteBase becomes /
13:24 < Xylakant> like that: http://pastie.org/225502
13:24 < impl> okay
13:26 < Xylakant> and I want routing::gen() to always add the html route, so that all urls end with '.html'
13:26 < erisco> did I ever mention how much I hate rewriting and apache config in general?
13:26 < erisco> it never, ever, ever works for me
13:26 < impl> Xylakant: without having to do blah+html?
13:26 < erisco> right now I am getting infinite redirect loops... sigh
13:26 < Xylakant> yes
13:27 < impl> hmm
13:27 < Xylakant> unless any of the other routes are specified - so when I do 'blah+xml', I don't want the .html in the end...
13:27 < v-dogg> erisco: you can get routing to work without .htaccess but I can't find the example now
13:27 < erisco> MikeSeth, if the rewrite base becomes / then it says index.php cannot be found
13:27 < erisco> MikeSeth, the base has to be /project/pub/
13:28 < erisco> v-dogg, htaccess or not, I cannot cooperate with rewriting
13:28 < Xylakant> it's easy to always add '.html' unconditionally - by setting 'imply="true"', but that does unconditionally add the '.html', whether another output-type was set or not
13:29 < v-dogg> erisco: but how can you access project/pub/foo without rewriting?
13:29 < Flukey> so tired :(
13:29 < v-dogg> erisco: http://www.agavi.org/docs/HEAD/manuals/cookbook/ch02s01.html#id928578
13:29 < erisco> v-dogg, I can't... what are you saying?
13:30 < v-dogg> see Tip
13:30 < erisco> what is happening now is the index.php file is found but the rewriting apparently does not believe it is a file and redirects again
13:30 < v-dogg> erisco: ah, I thought "I cannot cooperate with rewriting" meant I don't use rewriting
13:30 < erisco> back to the index.php
13:30 < erisco> it uses me :(
13:30 < impl> Xylakant: I'm wondering whether that would introduce some sort of non-determinance where it's impossible to tell what other routes should be added if there is an output_type or not
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13:32 < erisco> aren't the -d and -f things contained in another module?
13:32 < erisco> maybe there is something I do not have enabled
13:32 < v-dogg> erisco: you should probably just use .htaccess and learn apache configs later :)
13:32 < erisco> v-dogg, its the exact same thing
13:33 < v-dogg> did you read the manual section (or at least the tip in it) I just pasted?
13:35 < _cheerios> marklar|omni: d700 questions; it's DX (not FF) and the same sensor is in... D300, right?
13:35 < erisco> v-dogg, I am still getting infinite redirects :(
13:35 < v-dogg> can you paste you vhost config, please
13:37 < erisco> v-dogg, http://pastey.net/90330
13:37 < Xylakant> Impl: I wouldn't be passing an output type but a route. Anyways - Wombert says: doesn't work :(
13:37 < impl> oh well :
13:37 < impl> :\
13:38 -!- liutis [n=codecop@78-61-197-230.static.zebra.lt] has joined #agavi
13:39 < erisco> it would be so convenient if I knew what {DOCUMENT_ROOT}%{REQUEST_FILENAME} actually evaluated to
13:39 < erisco> otherwise I am just guessing
13:39 < CIA-5> impl * r2557 /branches/impl-build_system/ (25 files in 12 dirs):
13:39 < CIA-5> branches/impl-build_system (refs #689):
13:39 < CIA-5> - Add `agavi` script
13:39 < CIA-5> - Bugfixes
13:39 < CIA-5> - Rework how project-specific build.xml files are imported
13:39 < CIA-5> - Add custom build logger for phing
13:39 < CIA-5> - Add public-web-create for creating the pub/ directory with Web content
13:39 < v-dogg> erisco: "THIS IS THE ONLY SETTING YOU SHOULD HAVE TO CHANGE" above RewriteBase...
13:39 < v-dogg> I think you should follow that :)
13:39 < erisco> v-dogg, yeah?
13:40 < erisco> v-dogg, the tip said to not use rewritebase
13:40 < impl> the new build system prompts you for it
13:40 < impl> :>
13:40 < erisco> v-dogg, so I took it out
13:40 < erisco> "You cannot use a RewriteBase, so you have to use the full relative path in the rewrite rules and destinations, including the leading slash."
13:40 < v-dogg> oh, sorry
13:40 -!- jwage is now known as jonwage
13:40 < impl> we have tips? D:
13:41 < impl> MikeSeth: for yuo, I added a script
13:41 < impl> build/script/agavi
13:41 * v-dogg smacks impl with http://www.agavi.org/docs/HEAD/manuals/cookbook/ch02s01.html#id928578
13:42 < impl> you can also symlink the script in your project directory and it will know the project directory no matter where that script is called
13:42 < impl> no added configuration :~
13:42 < MikeSeth> impl: you are winner
13:42 < v-dogg> erisco: maybe that only works inside . dunno, I'm no Apache expert
13:43 < erisco> v-dogg, and I use the RFC2119 definition for should ;)
13:44 -!- kaos|work_ [n=dominik@munich.bitxtender.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
13:44 < _cheerios> i dont use apache anymore, but i had this old config around http://pastie.org/225514
13:44 < v-dogg> erisco: and are you sure that Alias /project doesn't mess things up?
13:44 < erisco> _cheerios, hows the ORM going? you releasing anything?
13:44 < erisco> v-dogg, I am sure of nothing
13:44 < CIA-5> impl * r2558 /branches/impl-build_system/build/ (6 files in 3 dirs): Adding svn:keywords Id for new files
13:44 < erisco> v-dogg, its all voodoo and witchcraft to me
13:45 < _cheerios> i don't know myself :)
13:45 < _cheerios> added new functionality today, but havent got to clean the core
13:46 < v-dogg> erisco: got to go, hope you figure it out
13:46 < v-dogg> home ->
13:47 < erisco> v-dogg, thanks
13:47 < erisco> man, any time that the route starts working I only get infinite redirects
13:47 < erisco> something is wrong with RewriteCond %{DOCUMENT_ROOT}%{REQUEST_FILENAME} !-f
13:48 < erisco> what module does it take to get -f to work?
13:48 < impl> ?
13:48 < _cheerios> it all comes with mod_rewrite
13:48 < erisco> perhaps it is not enabled... or perhaps %{DOCUMENT_ROOT}%{REQUEST_FILENAME} is evaluating to the wrong thing
13:48 < erisco> how do I test that?
13:48 < _cheerios> that's just some of the syntax it uses, google up apache + mod_rewrite for docs
13:48 < erisco> I remember reading -f and -d were contained in a different module, but perhaps not
13:49 < _cheerios> Xylakant: how's mtv
13:50 < erisco> is it even possible to debug somewhere what those variables evaluate to?
13:50 < erisco> obviously they are wrong, and I need to find out how
13:51 < impl> I usually do stuff like RewriteRule /test /foo?%{DOCUMENT_ROOT} [R]
13:51 < impl> which is gay, but it works
13:51 < _cheerios> setenv leet_debug_var %{DOCUMENT_ROOT} ? :)
13:51 < impl> _cheerios: do those work outside of Rewrite*?
13:52 < erisco> I cannot get a script to load, though
13:52 < erisco> I cannot get the rewriting to work
13:52 < impl> erisco: doesn't matter, you just need to see what it is
13:52 < impl> [R] redirects
13:52 < impl> so it'll show up in your address bar
13:52 < impl> :x
13:52 < erisco> okay...
13:52 < impl> or you can try the setenv and use a simple script to print it out
13:53 < erisco> well like I said a script won't work righ tnow
13:54 < _cheerios> impl: *shrug* trying to help the anti-doc guy :)
13:55 < erisco> impl, that is working
13:55 < impl> erisco: and is it right?
13:55 < erisco> no
13:55 < erisco> the request filename already included the document root
13:56 < impl> well that solves your problem then ;p
13:56 < erisco> but I am STILL getting infinite redirects
13:56 < erisco> GOD I HATE APACHE.
13:56 < erisco> nothing gets me more frustrated
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13:58 < erisco> I even wrote in the condition RewriteCond %{REQUEST_FILENAME} !^/home/eric/Desktop/www/project/pub/index.php$
13:58 < erisco> AND IT STILL REDIRECTS
13:58 < impl> lol
13:58 < impl> I don't think you can do that
13:59 < erisco> why not?
13:59 < impl> wait
13:59 < impl> oh cool
13:59 < impl> :>
14:00 < impl> erisco: pastebin your entire or whatever
14:00 < impl> let me see what you have done
14:02 < erisco> omfg -.-
14:02 < erisco> okay, posting
14:03 < erisco> http://pastie.org/225525
14:03 < erisco> %{REQUEST_FILENAME} is a directory!!
14:03 < erisco> why does it rewrite!!
14:04 < impl> eh
14:04 < erisco> these things are so impossible to debug. it drives me CRAZY.
14:04 < impl> RewriteRule ^/project/pub$ /project/pub/index.php?/ [QSA,L]
14:04 < impl> RewriteRule ^/project/pub/(.*) /project/pub/index.php?/$1 [QSA,L]
14:05 < erisco> that doesn't make any sense though
14:05 < impl> yes it does
14:05 < impl> you don't have a RewriteBase
14:05 < erisco> why would I match things starting with /project/pub?
14:05 < erisco> only /project appears in the url
14:06 < impl> err, you shouldn't have your directory structure like that then
14:06 < erisco> and what does it matter what index.php actually gets?
14:06 < erisco> index.php isn't getting anything right now because it keeps redirecting. if index.php is getting the wrong information that is another issue...
14:07 < impl> Alias /project /home/eric/Desktop/www/project/pub
14:07 < impl> wait
14:07 < impl> are you aliasing a directory to a sub-directory of the alias?
14:07 < impl> because /that/ doesn't make any sense
14:07 < erisco> I don't understand what you are saying
14:08 < impl> You are setting an alias for /project to a subdirectory of /project
14:08 < erisco> /project in the url is mapped to /project/pub/
14:08 < erisco> impl, yes, as v-dogg I believe said
14:08 < impl> yeah, but that's within the alias
14:08 < erisco> or MikeSeth rather
14:09 < erisco> I do not understand what you are saying impl
14:09 < impl> /project is already a directory in the Webserver
14:09 < erisco> yes
14:09 < impl> so you're aliasing something to itself
14:09 < erisco> oh
14:10 < erisco> well where do I put it :s
14:10 < marklar|omni> in /fail
14:10 < impl> You should just move your Agavi application out of www
14:12 < erisco> impl, thanks, its working now ;)
14:12 < erisco> impl, actually that isn't the first time I aliased something to itself... sigh
14:12 < impl> no problem :>
14:12 < erisco> I am not webserver config compatible :s
14:12 < impl> lawl
14:14 < erisco> now to get on with using agavi
14:15 < erisco> "ADD: Add support for native doctrine model autoloading (#759) (David)"
14:15 < erisco> how do I take advantage of this?
14:16 < impl> it should just work
14:16 < impl> oh, hm
14:16 < impl> I C WUT U DID THAR
14:16 < impl> http://trac.agavi.org/changeset/2537
14:16 < erisco> I looked it up in the ticket
14:16 < erisco> http://trac.agavi.org/ticket/759
14:18 < MikeSeth> FUCK
14:18 * MikeSeth becomes pissed at Doctrine
14:18 < erisco> me too
14:18 < MikeSeth> Doctrine thinks it can tell me what to do and not to do in my code?
14:18 < MikeSeth> WELL FUCK YOU
14:18 < erisco> pear install http://pear.phpdoctrine.org/Doctrine-0.11.0 which is on their download page, doesn't work :s
14:19 < MikeSeth> $pdo = $this->context->getDatabaseManager()->getDatabase()->getResource();
14:19 < MikeSeth> $stmt = $pdo->query($sql);
14:19 < MikeSeth> foreach ($stmt as $row)
14:19 < MikeSeth> $results[] = $row;
14:19 < MikeSeth> hehehe
14:19 < MikeSeth> erisco: srsly?
14:19 < MikeSeth> tell jwage
14:19 < erisco> MikeSeth, seriously
14:19 < erisco> well I put it on #doctrine yesterday
14:19 < erisco> *shrug* I will dialog jonwage then
14:20 < _cheerios> looks like youre really using doctrine to its limits there, mike ;)
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14:21 < kapitan> how to get view attributes in agavi filter
14:21 < Macen> haha MikeSeth :)
14:22 < MikeSeth> kapitan: you probably want the container attributes
14:22 < MikeSeth> kapitan: the container is passed as a parameter to the filter's execute method
14:23 < MikeSeth> _cheerios: I am. I need to form a player presence table that counts how many players are in every round, and since there are different types of players it involves subselects and self-referential joins
14:23 < MikeSeth> Doctrine is not your friend for this kinda stuff
14:23 < erisco> d'oh I thought the rewriting was working but turns out it was only because of my wacky browser cache
14:23 < erisco> I changed the file and everything broke again
14:23 < Wombert> from the container, kapitan
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14:26 < _cheerios> all i read was "Doctrine is not your friend"
14:27 < kapitan> thanks i got it!
14:27 < erisco> restarting apache takes forever...
14:28 -!- Arme[0] is now known as Arme[N]
14:28 < jonwage> erisco: hmm i guess it needs to be pear install pear.phpdoctrine.org/Doctrine-0.11.0
14:28 < jonwage> pear install http://pear.phpdoctrine.org/Doctrine-0.11.0 doesn't work
14:29 < erisco> jonwage, ah, okay I will try that
14:29 < erisco> I've got another apache config problem in the meantime...
14:29 < erisco> %{REQUEST_FILENAME} is /home/eric/Desktop/project/plant.png when it should be /home/eric/Desktop/project/pub/plant.png
14:29 < erisco> so therefore it is not finding any of the images
14:31 < erisco> jonwage, Package "pear.phpdoctrine.org/Doctrine-0.11.0" is not valid
14:31 < jonwage> hmm it worked for me
14:31 < jonwage> sudo pear install pear.phpdoctrine.org/Doctrine-0.11.0
14:32 < erisco> oh, the sudo did it, heh
14:32 < erisco> what a misleading error message. anyways, thanks
14:32 < jonwage> ya
14:32 < jonwage> weird
14:33 < erisco> oh, duh, my apache alias is wrong
14:33 < erisco> I need a break :s
14:33 < erisco> aliases are killing me today
14:35 < erisco> let's see if I can get away without having to restart apache in the next hour
14:45 < Xylakant> ok, bye all :)
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15:23 < erisco> should a module be used for each individual function of the site or is it more like symfony's applications?
15:24 < erisco> where you would just have a frontend module and backend module?
15:24 < stachu> hello
15:24 < stachu> i heard that mtv.de is on agavi
15:24 < stachu> its true?
15:24 < stachu> is it true?
15:24 < erisco> for example in a simple blog site you have categories, articles, comments, and static pages. should all these concepts be in a single module?
15:24 < erisco> or should there be a Categories module, Comments module, Articles module, etc?
15:25 < erisco> and in that case should both the guest and administrative functions exist in the same module?
15:25 < erisco> because be it not that case I believe it should be a frontend and backend module
15:25 < erisco> and the individual aspects use the SubModule.ActionName scheme
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15:27 < erisco> there lacks a documentation for this
15:27 < impl> stachu: It's true
15:27 < MikeSeth> stachu: yes
15:27 < MikeSeth> ;>
15:28 < impl> % nc mtv.de 80 | grep 'X-Powered-By'
15:28 < impl> GET / HTTP/1.1
15:28 < impl> X-Powered-By: Agavi/1.0.0-dev on PHP/5.2.6-1~westend+etch1
15:28 < MikeSeth> apt-get install libwww-perl
15:28 < MikeSeth> :D
15:28 < impl> DO NOT WANT
15:29 < impl> I'm sure I could do it with links or something, but it's easier to just speak HTTP
15:31 < erisco> MikeSeth, where did you stick that generic Doctrine layout for agavi?
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15:33 < erisco> MikeSeth, do you remember that?
15:37 < MikeSeth> yes
15:37 < MikeSeth> but it's for doctrine 0.10
15:37 < MikeSeth> if you want to grab it
15:38 < MikeSeth> ZOMG
15:38 < MikeSeth> VICTOLY
15:38 < MikeSeth> http://laist.com/2008/06/30/california_to_legalize_weed_for_eve_1.php
15:39 < erisco> MikeSeth, nothing is that different between 0.10 and 0.11 is there?
15:40 < MikeSeth> erisco: well aside of 100+ bug fixes and a bunch of improvements
15:40 < MikeSeth> sec ill fetch you the link
15:40 < erisco> MikeSeth, I just wanted the layout, not the doctrine source code
15:40 < erisco> I pear'd it already
15:40 < erisco> I am currently hunting through the 1MB june IRC log for that link
15:40 < erisco> < MikeSeth> I made a plug-in for Doctrine sandbox
15:41 < erisco> I am getting close
15:41 < MikeSeth> http://www.mikeseth.com/agavi-doctrine-plugin.tgz
15:41 < erisco> http://mikeseth.com/agavi-doctrine-plugin.tgz
15:41 < erisco> dang, I just found it :P
15:42 < erisco> thanks MikeSeth
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15:46 < erisco> MikeSeth, you should throw in a database config for it as well
15:48 < marklar|omni> MikeSeth: can you pick up xl/coek on teh way?
15:48 < marklar|omni> someone drank the last xl
15:48 < marklar|omni> :(
15:50 < MikeSeth> marklar|omni: it was there in the fridge in the morning you nigger
15:50 < MikeSeth> erisco: there's a sample database config
15:50 < marklar|omni> and its not here
15:50 < MikeSeth> erisco: plz2see readme
15:50 < MikeSeth> marklar|omni: of course it isnt, you left and I drank it
15:50 < MikeSeth> marklar|omni: I'm taking a cab nao
15:51 < MikeSeth> marklar|omni: so I'll ask the driver
15:51 < marklar|omni> 0oa
15:51 < marklar|omni> k
15:51 < marklar|omni> thx
15:51 < marklar|omni> <3
15:51 < marklar|omni> I raep nao
15:52 < marklar|omni> i haz tf2 addiction :(
15:55 < erisco> MikeSeth, know any docs for how to design modules?
15:56 < erisco> MikeSeth, with the ability to just have sub modules it is confusing as to what deserves to be its own module
15:59 < stachu> cause im writing bigger app in agavi and im thinking if is it good idea
15:59 < stachu> it cant be slow
15:59 < erisco> stachu, agavi isn't slow
15:59 < erisco> agavi + Doctrine + apc and you're flying at 100 rps
16:00 < stachu> but i have friends who are wiriting huge applications in php without OOP
16:00 < stachu> it stupid, isnt it?
16:00 < stachu> its
16:00 < erisco> OOP is just a style
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16:01 < erisco> big applications doesn't mean OOP is required
16:01 -!- saracen [n=shalco@91.84.44.213] has joined #agavi
16:01 < stachu> 4 people working on php project written without framework?
16:01 < stachu> is it good idea?
16:01 < erisco> surely there are guidelines though?
16:02 < erisco> aimlessly coding is a bad idea, yes
16:03 < stachu> im a little bit scared becouse i have written store in agavi and in localhost its working fine
16:03 < stachu> but i dont know what will be on server
16:04 < erisco> you do not know your production environment?
16:06 < stachu> not yet but company will buy new i think if there will be some problems
16:06 < stachu> its my first bigger app
16:06 < erisco> ideally your development environment is a clone of your production environment
16:06 < stachu> im reading a lot of articles about optimalizating servers and php :)
16:07 < erisco> then there aren't any guesses
16:07 < erisco> premature optimization is a bad idea
16:07 < erisco> how many visitors are you expecting per day?
16:08 < stachu> 10 000 per day?
16:08 < stachu> is it a lot?
16:08 < erisco> no
16:08 < stachu> uff
16:09 < stachu> product table 70 000
16:09 < erisco> think about it. 10000 in 24 hours. so we divide by 24, which is 415 people per hour. then divide by 60 for minutes and 60 for seconds...
16:09 < stachu> product_feature table approx 1 000 000
16:09 < erisco> taht is 0.1 people per second
16:09 < stachu> uniq
16:09 < erisco> or just 7 per minute
16:09 < stachu> 10 000 uniq per day
16:10 < erisco> now there may be busy times and non-busy times
16:10 < erisco> say at 5 is when we get 40% of all the people
16:10 < erisco> but that is something you will have to monitor
16:10 < stachu> have you evere used memcached?
16:10 < erisco> I use apc
16:11 < stachu> oh
16:11 < stachu> so its only alternative
16:11 < erisco> that is just what it is called
16:13 < stachu> thanks a lot for some info :)
16:13 < Macen> lol
16:13 < Macen> you didn't get an answer
16:14 < Macen> what's the answer :p
16:14 < erisco> Macen, what is the question?
16:14 < Macen> best practice for using MVC frameworks
16:15 < erisco> that's quite a vague question...
16:15 < erisco> maybe a more specific question is "how should an agavi module be used?" which is a question I have :P
16:16 < stachu> but are there some benchmarks how agavi perform in background of other frameworks
16:17 < erisco> stachu, it depends what you are doing, really, but agavi doesn't have much overhead
16:17 < erisco> stachu, I wouldn't be that concerned about 10k users per day unless you are expecting them within a couple hours
16:18 < erisco> and even then it'd probably be okay
16:18 < erisco> you can always add more servers later, right?
16:18 < stachu> i only wanted to know if 10 000 visits per day is a lot for agavi
16:18 < stachu> i know it depends on server
16:18 < stachu> but should i be worried about it
16:18 < stachu> yep
16:19 < erisco> stachu, I get 0.003 seconds on a poor benchmark environment for agavi serving up a static page
16:19 < Macen> where are the figure, what's the link.....................................
16:19 < erisco> stachu, additional overhead is ORM + database time primarily
16:19 < erisco> stachu, and in that I am loading up agavi plus doctrine, but using apc to save butt loads of time on doctrine
16:19 < Wombert> erisco: did you sort the rewrite stuff
16:20 < erisco> Wombert, yeah... with enough headaches :P
16:20 < Wombert> your rules were for virtualhosts
16:20 < Wombert> well
16:20 < Wombert> for using in vhost configs
16:20 < Wombert> not for use in .htaccess
16:20 < Wombert> :>
16:20 < erisco> Wombert, what I wanted to ask now is what modules should be treated as
16:20 < erisco> Wombert, are they like symfony applications? (are you familiar?)
16:20 < Wombert> kind of
16:21 < Wombert> some people have "public" and "admin" modules ;)
16:21 < erisco> well say in a blog I have posts, categories, and comments
16:21 < Wombert> others have one module for each big functionality
16:21 < stachu> i will test my app on Fujitsu Siemens Computers Hardware, AMD X2/64 5200+, 2.7 GHz, 2048MB RAM
16:21 < erisco> Wombert, yeah, in another project I used Public and Admin
16:21 < Wombert> me too
16:21 < Wombert> for a blog... hmm
16:21 < Wombert> I'd have... "blog", then "cms", then "admin", and other stuff
16:21 < Wombert> mind you you can nest actions
16:22 < stachu> i hope that will be anough
16:22 < Wombert> app/modules/Blog/actions/Postings/Posting/DeleteAction.class.php
16:22 < stachu> enaugh
16:22 < Wombert> it is, usually
16:22 < erisco> Wombert, yes, so nesting actions seems to serve as submodules
16:22 < Wombert> feel free to draft something up and show it around here
16:22 < Wombert> pretty much yes erisco
16:23 < erisco> Wombert, I think I am satisfied with a Public and Admin then, as they are the two huge separations
16:23 < erisco> Wombert, if I had a single "Post" module it would contain both the public and admin functionality, and that seems wrong
16:24 < erisco> unless I just had, say Post.Public.View and Post.Admin.Edit, say
16:24 < erisco> which also works :P
16:25 < erisco> in agavi it would be organized as Admin.Post.Edit
16:26 < erisco> following the rest of the scheme, because for example each submodule doesn't get its own single directory, it gets directories inside of templates/, views/, actions/, etc
16:26 < Wombert> btw
16:26 < Wombert> :>
16:26 < Wombert> client-254-001:~ dzuelke$ wget -O - -q --save-headers http://bmw-web.tv/ | grep "X-Powered-By"
16:26 < Wombert> X-Powered-By: Agavi
16:26 < Macen> ehh
16:26 < Macen> +1 for public+admin same folder
16:27 < Macen> *module
16:27 < Macen> not folder
16:27 < Macen> maybe sub-folder
16:27 < Macen> sub-action..
16:27 < Macen> ..
16:27 < erisco> from a maintenance/management standpoint I am not sure if it is more likely to deal with "Post" as a whole, or just for example the Admin side of "Post"
16:28 -!- stachu [i=sayonara@enc170.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"]
16:28 < Wombert> I wouldn't do modules for post, comment etc
16:28 < Macen> i think about extractability mostly
16:29 < erisco> Macen, this is true
16:29 < Macen> ya
16:30 < erisco> although I don't see myself needing to extract code like that
16:30 < Macen> well you see i do
16:30 < Macen> at least, the core
16:30 < erisco> although the idea of module is probably modular programming...
16:31 < erisco> nonetheless, a Post module is tied to models, and tied to templates
16:31 < erisco> just to outright rip a module from one project and plug it into another sounds like more than a copy and paste anyhow
16:31 < Wombert> it's not really realistic
16:32 < Wombert> other project uses different db/orm/blah
16:32 < Wombert> or templates
16:32 < Wombert> etc
16:32 < Wombert> it can be done, but don't expect plug-and-play ;)
16:32 < Wombert> I guess that's one of the unsolved problems of any framework
16:32 < Wombert> anyways
16:32 < Wombert> otoh, you might want to have all blog related funcitonality in one module, right?
16:32 < Macen> well the way i work atm is basically, the "module" is actually seperated into all the main "language" folders. like, includes/common/_mod_name_.php then includes/modules/_mod_name_/pages & includes/modules/_mod_name_/filters & includes/modules/_mod_name_/ajax - then includes/scripts_mod_name.js
16:32 < erisco> DI is the supposed solution
16:32 < Wombert> doubt you could, make, say, the comments feature flexible enough so that it can be used with any stuff, not just the blog
16:33 < Wombert> yeah likely, erisco
16:33 < erisco> why doesn't agavi adopt a DI container?
16:34 < Macen> also it's kind of been fubar'ed a bit because i now have an extjs folder which outputs code from includes/common/extjs_addon
16:34 < Macen> but...
16:34 < Macen> it works
16:34 < erisco> agavi already uses the xml config files which are ideal for DI setup
16:35 < Wombert> :>
16:35 < Wombert> gotta run
16:35 < Wombert> laters guys
16:35 -!- Wombert [n=Wombert@munich.bitxtender.net] has quit ["bai"]
16:35 < erisco> bye
16:35 * Macen waves
16:35 < Macen> i just hope agavi is web 2.0 friendly
16:35 < Macen> i don't know yet :)
16:35 < Macen> ajax etc this is all fine i hope...
16:35 < Macen> blah
16:36 < erisco> I believe so. if you check out the sample app it uses different web services
16:36 < erisco> thanks to context its all pretty intuitive
16:36 < Macen> overhead for an ajax call just seems pointless
16:36 < Macen> yea, cool
16:36 < erisco> ajax is cool in my opinion ;)
16:36 < Macen> kk
16:37 < erisco> I'm one for wanting to make web applications more like desktop applications
16:37 < Macen> ya, that's part of my spiel
16:38 < Macen> see http://pa [spam] na [spam] z8.youds.com/app
16:38 < Macen> coming along smoothly..
16:38 < Macen> extjs is fairly rocking
16:38 < Macen> wouldn't use it on front end though
16:39 < erisco> Macen, jQuery or prototype
16:39 < erisco> oh, extjs :P
16:40 < Macen> prototype..that was my first extjs framework :)
16:40 < Macen> ERR
16:40 < Macen> javascript*
16:40 < Macen> my first javascript framework*
16:40 < Macen> jQuery was too complex for me..
16:40 < erisco> do you find extjs the best for the GUI type of stuff then?
16:40 < erisco> jQuery is the only simple thing to me :s
16:40 < Macen> right click context menu's...
16:40 < Macen> single or double click grid functionality...
16:41 < Macen> dialog boxes pre-config'ed
16:41 < Macen> grids....
16:41 < Macen> i'd say so
16:41 < erisco> I haven't looked into jQuery GUI, but I know they have great dialogue boxes
16:42 < Macen> prototype was useful but not a framework really
16:42 < Macen> just lots of short cuts
16:42 < Macen> mootools is worth a mention for their transitions
16:42 < Macen> and sexy code
16:42 < Macen> but yeh..
16:42 < Macen> extjs for admin deffo
16:45 < Macen> the key is, extract the extjs source and the examples fiolder, rename the "examples" folder to "plugins" (heh) and then use them as that
16:45 < Macen> because css is all relative and they use their own images folders, you literally have the "backend" in place by including the extjs file
16:46 < Macen> then you're flying..
16:47 -!- icyt is now known as IcyT
16:48 < Macen> heh
16:48 < Macen> possibly the best quick fix to get wow factor i've ever seen anyway
16:49 < Macen> their code is fugly however, so i have files that act as templates which get included before a load of vars are set (through a function)
16:49 < Macen> there are other drawbacks too
16:50 < Macen> *after
16:50 * Macen coffee
16:56 * Flukey sleep
16:58 < erisco> Macen, "rename the 'examples' folder to 'plugins'", lmao
17:01 < erisco> I can't wait until everything is USB
17:01 < erisco> won't need to open up a case ever again
17:02 < erisco> need another 2GB of ram? plug 'n play baby!
17:03 < erisco> complete idiots could modify their computers... and we wouldn't need to worry about interior case space
17:03 < erisco> or ventilation... everything is sufficiently self-contained and non-conflicting
17:04 < erisco> we wouldn't need to worry about those finicky connectors and hard to reach places
17:04 < erisco> which risks damaging components
17:05 < erisco> including something stupid (but not hard to do) like shocking and thus frying a component
17:05 < erisco> we have usb floppy drives, cd/dvd rom drives, tape drives, hard drives
17:06 < erisco> the extra lag time from the cable would be something to consider... but what about usb with fiber optics?
17:06 < erisco> now we are really talking
17:08 < erisco> in our computer we could have a mother board, onboard ram, and a CPU
17:08 < erisco> heck, maybe not even a cpu!
17:08 < erisco> usb cpu... heheh
17:09 < erisco> so speaking of web 2.0, I think we are ready for computer 2.0 ;)
17:11 < erisco> and, man, with a single interface there wouldn't be all those nit-picky requirements
17:13 < Macen> ha!!!forget that dude, i'm all for sharing knowledge but letting them do it themselves?!!! god forbid!!!
17:13 < Macen> nah i don't even know anyone who does web 2.0 successfully as it can be done in the entire north of england
17:13 < Macen> when i see someone doing it i may shut up about it tbh :p
17:14 < Macen> atm i'm "that guy who says you can" not "that guy who is doing"
17:14 < Macen> which is obviously not good
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17:50 < marklar|omni> heh
17:50 < marklar|omni> sekz.
18:03 < marklar|omni> anyone alive?
18:07 < marklar|omni> WAKE UP SHEEPLE
18:09 * Macen isn't anyone YOU HEAR
18:09 < Macen> so i going L:D
18:09 < Macen> harhar baiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii
18:09 -!- Macen [n=leopard@host86-154-107-27.range86-154.btcentralplus.com] has quit []
18:10 < marklar|omni> durrrrr
18:12 < marklar|omni> argh
18:25 < _cheerios> looking for tf2 playas? :)
18:26 < marklar|omni> nah
18:26 < marklar|omni> trying to find something to get as a present for self
18:26 < marklar|omni> birthday in 2wks
18:26 < marklar|omni> ;[
18:26 < marklar|omni> ideas?
18:27 -!- Spica_ [n=miikka@thule.yok.utu.fi] has joined #agavi
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18:29 < _cheerios> tickets to vegas with loaded up mastercard
18:30 < marklar|omni> nah
18:30 < marklar|omni> can't fly till end of august
18:30 < marklar|omni> had a pneumothorax in feb
18:30 < marklar|omni> and I hate the us
18:30 < marklar|omni> anything else?
18:31 -!- fnordfish [n=fnordfis@obc-r22-325-217-66-62-6.exozet.com] has joined #agavi
18:33 < _cheerios> there's always next year
18:33 < _cheerios> im seeing that d700 everywhere today due ads
18:34 < marklar|omni> yeah
18:34 < marklar|omni> I don't want to get a new (way better) cam tho
18:34 < marklar|omni> because I'll abandon my other shit
18:34 -!- Wombert [n=Wombert@dslb-088-066-181-069.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #agavi
18:37 < Wombert> huomenta
18:37 < marklar|omni> hai2u
18:40 < marklar|omni> Wombert: hear?
18:40 < Wombert> eh?
18:40 < marklar|omni> 21:26 < marklar|omni> trying to find something to get as a present for self
18:40 < marklar|omni> 21:26 < marklar|omni> birthday in 2wks
18:40 < Wombert> howmuch
18:41 < marklar|omni> $500usd or so
18:41 < marklar|omni> something small
18:41 < impl> get an iPhone lolol
18:42 < marklar|omni> ugh fail
18:42 < marklar|omni> no
18:46 < _cheerios> it's cheap! you can get it for 1e in finland! that is, while paying a hundred euroes a month for the twenty-four month contract period.
18:48 < MikeSeth> Wombert: what else is going on in the trunk?
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18:49 < marklar|omni> heh
18:49 < marklar|omni> I hate apple
18:52 < marklar|omni> srsly guise, halp.
18:53 < MikeSeth> wat
18:53 * MikeSeth bothers Wombert
18:54 < Wombert> uh well
18:54 < Wombert> loads of refactoring!?
18:54 < Wombert> why are you asking
18:54 < Wombert> btw skype as planned?
18:54 < Wombert> or push back a bit?
18:54 * Wombert has to eat
18:54 < Wombert> marklar|omni: ps3? :>
18:54 < E_mE[Stilgar> Wombert: chilli ;)
18:55 < marklar|omni> meah
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18:55 < marklar|omni> Wombert: neh
18:55 < MikeSeth> Wombert: can push imo
18:55 < MikeSeth> Wombert: dont you think text chat is more productive?
18:56 < erisco> gah I cannot bootstrap doctrine :s
18:57 < erisco> MikeSeth, you had written $dbm = $ctx->getDatabaseManager()->getDatabase()->getConnection()->connect();
18:57 < erisco> MikeSeth, $ctx->getDatabaseManager() is returning null
18:57 < erisco> MikeSeth, the configuration is in databases.xml though
18:58 < Wombert> settings.xml
18:58 < Wombert> use_database
18:59 < impl> IS BACK
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19:01 < erisco> Wombert, thanks
19:01 < Wombert> ohai
19:05 < _cheerios> MikeSeth: does wombie sound like arnold?
19:06 < impl> Wombert: what was the name of the beer we had tonight again?
19:07 < marklar|omni> waht
19:07 < marklar|omni> beer
19:07 < marklar|omni> want nao
19:08 < Wombert> Tegernseer Hell
19:08 < impl> nice, thanks
19:08 < Wombert> other good one is Augustiner
19:08 < impl> yar, I can remember that name :D
19:11 < erisco> I am going to put time into my site this summer
19:12 < erisco> when I start projects like that I always tend to want a site design first
19:12 < erisco> it seems more satisfactory to fill in the backend to something that looks good
19:12 < erisco> rather than build the backend and spit out a bunch of garble the whole time
19:13 < impl> I know what you mean :>
19:13 < marklar|omni> heh
19:13 < _cheerios> http://tinyurl.com/2vb346
19:13 < marklar|omni> I had a website that had an error_log() based output
19:13 < marklar|omni> for weeks
19:14 < MikeSeth> bukiphperr.
19:14 < marklar|omni> haha yeah
19:14 < marklar|omni> design was bukitables
19:14 < MikeSeth> FUNNE = NO :<
19:14 < marklar|omni> noez
19:21 -!- Whisller [n=Whisller@chello089078126051.chello.pl] has joined #agavi
19:21 < Whisller> hi
19:22 < marklar|omni> sup
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19:39 < erisco> I am trying to use the new native Doctrine model loading... doesn't seem to be working out for me very well
19:41 < erisco> http://pastey.net/90373
19:42 < erisco> both those paths should be valid... but I get errors saying none of the models were loaded :(
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19:44 < MikeSeth> erisco: is that from my template?
19:44 < erisco> MikeSeth, those paths?
19:44 < MikeSeth> yes
19:44 < MikeSeth> i have hacks there
19:44 < erisco> MikeSeth, yes, they correspond with your template
19:44 < MikeSeth> I think you need to apply a patch in agavi/
19:45 < MikeSeth> plz see readme
19:45 < erisco> what readme? :s
19:45 < MikeSeth> there's no readme in the template app?
19:45 < erisco> is there? lost the zip :P
19:45 < MikeSeth> duh there is
19:45 < MikeSeth> mikeseth.com/agavi-doctrine-plugin.tgz
19:47 < _cheerios> http://boobsforbarack.com/
19:49 < erisco> MikeSeth, I don't know what that changed, but it may be working
19:51 < erisco> okay.. agavi seems to be running... doctrine seems to be running..
19:51 < erisco> time to start building the app
19:52 < E_mE[Stilgar> MikeSeth: what does your plugin do?
19:53 < erisco> E_mE[Stilgar, it provides a generic Doctrine setup with agavi
19:53 < erisco> E_mE[Stilgar, its a template, you merge it over top of your existing project
19:54 < erisco> hmm... maybe I should just grab an open source template and mix it up a bit
19:58 < E_mE[Stilgar> erisco: oh i just inserts all the required information for doctrine to work
19:58 < E_mE[Stilgar> very nice :)
20:02 < MikeSeth> E_mE[Stilgar: mine comes with doctrine cli
20:02 < MikeSeth> :D
20:03 < E_mE[Stilgar> yeah i noticed couple of CLI references, not used it yet my self
20:04 -!- stachu [i=sayonara@enc170.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #agavi
20:04 < MikeSeth> well you better
20:04 < MikeSeth> i have a shell script that resets the database
20:05 < erisco> my site is known for my tic tac toe AI and my dynamic header images script
20:05 < erisco> in fact I have a few searches specifically looking for my script
20:05 < erisco> and the tic tac toe ones seem to be random people interested in tic tac toe AI
20:06 < erisco> php generate headers from fonts as images script
20:06 < erisco> I rank second there
20:06 < erisco> someone must have been pleased ;)
20:07 < MikeSeth> keekeke
20:08 -!- jwage [n=jwage@c-98-193-184-47.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit []
20:08 < erisco> is that a laugh or are you choking?
20:10 < MikeSeth> its the korean laugh
20:10 < MikeSeth> Wombert: dita toolkit is f'd up
20:10 < MikeSeth> trying to figure it out
20:11 < erisco> you know, I badly neglect my site
20:11 < erisco> for no reason either... I do actually want to maintain it. *shrug*
20:12 < erisco> first of all I have to come up with a new site design (and I am not a very good designer...)
20:12 < erisco> and then I have to get off of wordpress because I hate its guts
20:13 -!- _cheerios [n=goodrobo@dsl-hkibrasgw3-fe74fb00-140.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
20:14 -!- Netsplit kornbluth.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: E_mE, Arme[N], impl
20:14 * E_mE[Stilgar wished he could have 2 monitors so he could see errors as they happen ;)
20:14 < erisco> I much like the web 2.0 look but its not quite my personal style
20:14 < erisco> I wouldn't want something like cakephp's site as my personal site
20:14 < erisco> simple is good but boring isn't... its gotta have a bit of interest
20:15 < erisco> I hate little fonts, which is tough because bigger fonts don't look elegant
20:15 < erisco> people need to get off of the damn 800x600 resolutions
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20:15 < erisco> most sites I go to I have to ctrl++ the hell out of it before I can read it
20:16 < erisco> I can probably survive with just a two column site with a header and footer... yes...
20:16 * erisco goes away for a while to brainstorm
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20:55 < impl> Wombert: poek
21:00 < E_mE[Stilgar> evenin impl
21:01 < impl> hallo E_mE
21:02 < E_mE[Stilgar> do you see the game on sunday at the beer garden?
21:02 < impl> We went to the Olympiapark
21:02 < E_mE[Stilgar> whats that?
21:02 < impl> The Olympic Stadium thing
21:02 < impl> that they built in 1972 or something for the games
21:02 < E_mE[Stilgar> they have a big screen or so
21:03 < impl> http://www.flickr.com/photos/nfontes/sets/72157605922175360/ <-- I uploaded some pictures
21:03 < impl> the fourth one has a picture of the screen
21:04 < E_mE[Stilgar> haha being taking pictures of random girls =P
21:04 < impl> Well I was just walking past and then they looked up at me and did the peace sign
21:04 < impl> I could hardly /not/ take their picture
21:04 < impl> :>
21:04 < erisco> http://www.oswd.org/design/preview/id/26 "Hacked together for OSWD.org. I hope you enjoy my third design." -- you mean there are two more of these?
21:05 < erisco> where's the decent free stuff when you need it?
21:05 < E_mE[Stilgar> hehehe
21:05 < impl> erisco: there's a few decent free designs on OSWD
21:05 < E_mE[Stilgar> seems very cool in the stadium
21:05 < erisco> http://www.oswd.org/design/preview/id/2879 http://www.oswd.org/design/preview/id/2963 http://www.oswd.org/design/preview/id/3173
21:05 < erisco> those all have things I like...
21:06 < Wombert> well it would have been cooler if we had won...
21:08 < erisco> I don't want to completely take a design though. hm
21:09 < erisco> mainly because I don't want some random credit link :P
21:11 < erisco> I think I like http://www.oswd.org/design/preview/id/2879 the best
21:11 < erisco> it achieves the best look with the least graphics
21:11 < erisco> now just to get a good colour scheme and I can roughly duplicate the layout...
21:11 < erisco> the blue is a bit too sister blue for my taste
21:13 < erisco> http://www.colorcombos.com/color-scheme-260.html
21:13 < erisco> looks good!
21:14 -!- MrJeep [n=MrJeep@lbcomm-gx.abacom.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
21:15 < Wombert> too boring erisco
21:15 < Wombert> the blue to the right
21:16 < Wombert> plus black
21:16 < Wombert> and a dark red
21:16 < Wombert> or an orange
21:16 < Wombert> or the blue and a brown and... mh... a white
21:16 < erisco> are you a designer?
21:16 < Wombert> no, I couldn't even draw a circle on a sheet of paper
21:16 < erisco> few can
21:16 < Wombert> but I'm not too useless with colorts
21:16 < Wombert> *colors
21:17 < impl> zomg, I had this one teacher
21:17 < erisco> yeah but it cannot just be some random color scheme that looks good
21:17 < impl> who could spin around or so while holding a piece of chalk and draw a perfect circle on the blackboard
21:17 < erisco> its gotta be something I like too
21:17 < erisco> impl, I saw such a teacher on college humour
21:17 < erisco> they use the radius of their arm
21:19 < erisco> http://www.colorsontheweb.com/colorschemes.asp look for "lebak"
21:19 < erisco> its got a nice green in there
21:19 < Wombert> try uhm
21:19 < Wombert> FA6E00
21:19 < Wombert> and
21:19 < Wombert> uhm
21:19 < Wombert> 3A3A3A
21:19 < Wombert> and
21:19 < Wombert> uhm
21:19 < impl> http://www.colourlovers.com/palette/440946/Just_An_Orgasm
21:19 < Wombert> 3E66AA
21:20 < erisco> impl, looks like old cakephp site colours
21:21 < Wombert> the caek is a lie
21:21 * Wombert pets portal
21:21 < impl> Wombert: now you can sing the song
21:21 < Wombert> :>>>>
21:21 < impl> erisco: what colors are you looking for, anyway?
21:22 < erisco> impl, blue/silver or green/grey
21:22 < erisco> Wombert, I don't agree with the orange... I'm not very graphical and I couldn't see using that orange in solid blocks very successfully
21:22 < Wombert> use it for accents
21:22 < Wombert> links or blah
21:23 < Wombert> just shades of blue gets old real quick
21:23 < Wombert> you need contrast
21:23 < Wombert> anyways
21:23 < Wombert> laters :>
21:23 < impl> http://www.colourlovers.com/palette/440261/for:elpasa01
21:23 < Wombert> much better
21:24 < Wombert> why worry bout the colors at this point anyway? :p
21:25 < impl> erisco: you can steal the ones from http://transtruct.org/ if you want (ignore the fact that the menu is in the middle of the content, plzkthx)
21:25 < Wombert> uh
21:25 < Wombert> impl:
21:25 < Wombert> the menu is in the middle of the content I think
21:25 < Wombert> :>>
21:26 * impl slaps Wombert
21:26 < Wombert> heh
21:26 < impl> Months ago I intended to move it from one place to another
21:26 < impl> so I got rid of half of the CSS and then got distracted
21:26 < impl> -> that result
21:26 < erisco> impl, I can handle monochromatic blue but not green
21:27 < erisco> I still like 99CC00 353535 4F4F4F F2F3ED
21:27 < _cheerios> rewriting java classes? odd hobbies.
21:28 < Wombert> word
21:28 < erisco> what a coincidence, feebee is a light pink
21:29 < Wombert> heh
21:31 < E_mE[Stilgar> is there some math or theroy behind colours that math each other?
21:31 < Wombert> sure
21:31 < E_mE[Stilgar> match
21:32 < E_mE[Stilgar> i know that red and black aint friends hehe
21:32 < E_mE[Stilgar> and blue and black
21:33 < Wombert> http://www.colorschemer.com/schemes/
21:33 < E_mE[Stilgar> thanks
21:34 < E_mE[Stilgar> i cant believe there are websites for colour schemes
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21:46 < erisco> its been long enough that I forget how to float something
21:46 < erisco> wow
21:47 < erisco> E_mE[Stilgar, yeah, loads of em. kuler (by adobe) was the first I found
21:49 < erisco> oh, solved the floating problem. buggery thing
21:50 < erisco> buggery is not the word I was looking for
21:50 < erisco> buggy*
21:51 < _cheerios> aww.. watching trailers its so wrong to see the american release date just to find out the film comes 2mo later locally x_X the dvdrip should be out by then *gah*
21:56 < erisco> lipsum is the most useful thing given its simplicity in concept
21:59 < MikeSeth> impl: Wombert around?
21:59 < erisco> gah, changed my mind, don't like the green
21:59 < impl> MikeSeth: Wombert disappeared off somewhere, dunno
22:00 < erisco> its too nature-looking for me
22:00 < impl> doesn't sound like he's going to be around again tonight
22:00 < erisco> its sharp, but it isn't me
22:00 < MikeSeth> oh
22:02 < impl> MikeSeth: did you try anything like actually creating a usable project with the new buildsystem at all?
22:03 < impl> I'm not really sure it works at all
22:03 < impl> :>
22:03 < MikeSeth> impl: I just checked it out
22:03 < MikeSeth> impl: I mean from the repo
22:03 < impl> ah okay
22:03 < MikeSeth> havent played yet - trying to figure out why the dita toolkit doesnt render headers/footers
22:03 < MikeSeth> kinda makes me angry :>
22:03 < impl> oh noes
22:03 < impl> it's all Java isn't it, should be extensible and stuffs right?
22:04 < MikeSeth> well yes it should be
22:04 < MikeSeth> except when it doesnt do what the documentation says it should be doing
22:04 < impl> :(
22:05 < erisco> there, I picked a really boring blue and grey scheme
22:05 < erisco> I LOVE it :P
22:08 < impl> :<
22:08 < E_mE[Stilgar> nite nite
22:12 < impl> night, sir
22:15 < _cheerios> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHWmFkpondw big city lights o_O
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22:24 < MikeSeth> OH TREACHEROUS DITA
22:24 < MikeSeth> I SEE WHAT YOU DID THERE
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23:03 < MiNiMEE> good morning!
23:04 < MikeSeth> you mean night
23:04 < MikeSeth> but hello!
23:05 < MiNiMEE> oh well, depends on which side of the globe u r ... have to admit that it's dark where i am at ... :D
23:06 < MikeSeth> indeed
23:07 < MiNiMEE> r u up for a question about routing ... still having a few problems with mtv.de
23:09 < MiNiMEE> mike?
23:10 < MikeSeth> um
23:10 < MikeSeth> i can try to help you
23:10 < MikeSeth> so sure, shoot
23:10 < MikeSeth> (mind you I am not a developer of mtv.de)
23:11 < MiNiMEE> ok, we have several things like "" in our routing, but want to add a ".html" rendering for all content, except the ones like .rss aso ...
23:13 < MiNiMEE> oh well ... i have to extend a few things for mtv.de, so we've decided to join this channel and post our questions here ... if u don't mind :D
23:14 < MiNiMEE> problem is, that we couldn't figure out a way to check for existing routes so that there won't be things like "/.../blabla.html.rss" ...
23:14 < MikeSeth> hmmmmm
23:15 < MikeSeth> *all* content?
23:15 < MiNiMEE> all regular content ... except rss and 3 or 4 defined ones
23:16 < MiNiMEE>
23:16 < MiNiMEE>
23:16 < MiNiMEE>
23:16 < MiNiMEE> so three and the one for .rss ...
23:17 < MiNiMEE> it's no problem to append ".html" to any route, but when it comes to rendering everything WITH ".html" we are kind of stuck ...
23:18 < MiNiMEE> get the picture so far?
23:18 < impl> MiNiMEE: Felix asked the question earlier, I thought trying to do that would result in a situation where the outcome would not be possible to discern, and David said it just isn't possible
23:20 < MiNiMEE> hm ... grml ...
23:20 < MikeSeth> MiNiMEE: why would you want to do this anyway? If someone told you that you can improve SEO by adding .html, dont listen to them
23:21 < MikeSeth> also
23:21 < MikeSeth> DITA = pwned
23:21 < MiNiMEE> well ... that's exactly what's the problem
23:21 < MikeSeth> I can has custom designs!
23:21 < MikeSeth> MiNiMEE: what is?
23:21 < MiNiMEE> that some SEO guy said we have to append a .html to our URLs ... *don't ask*
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23:24 < MikeSeth> well your SEO guy doesnt know what he's talking about
23:24 < MikeSeth> either way
23:25 < MikeSeth> you do not want to do this for anything other than actual content
23:25 < MikeSeth> .xml and .txt and .rss shouldnt be changed - it simply makes no sense
23:25 < MiNiMEE> oh and since you were talking about SEO, anyone here that at least knows a fairly good portion of the google algorythm? i am asking because of H1 vs H2 aso.
23:25 < MikeSeth> no one knows anything
23:25 < MikeSeth> really
23:25 < MikeSeth> SEO people are mostly talking out of their ass
23:25 < MiNiMEE> *g*
23:26 < MikeSeth> and if your guy had any brains he'd know that changing thousands of URLs on a working site will cause much more damage to the ranking than improvement
23:26 < MikeSeth> especially on a site as big as MTV
23:27 < MikeSeth> I know this because I work with this kind of "SEO specialists" to this day, dog bless their wicked souls
23:28 < MiNiMEE> yeah ... one thing has to be changed thou ... our news reside under URI's like /article/1234567 ... and that URI is not exclusive for news, but other content too ... so there we will have to bend routing a little
23:28 < MiNiMEE> AMEN!
23:28 < MiNiMEE> *g*
23:29 < MiNiMEE> .. remember that /date/id/title thing from the other day?
23:33 < MiNiMEE> suggestion: what about including a URI.class.php so that lame false-SEO-freaks could have clean URLs enabled/disabled if they know nothing about the power of routing?
23:33 < MiNiMEE> i mean, including it in agavi ... in general
23:35 < MikeSeth> what would it do?
23:35 < MikeSeth> the current routing mechanism is powerful to do pretty much anything
23:38 < MiNiMEE> i don't know, simply just making it do those things ... i recently took a look into CodeIgniter wich does it via such a class ...
23:38 < MikeSeth> well, Agavi is designed for custom applications
23:38 < MikeSeth> your approach is just one of many
23:39 < MikeSeth> besides
23:39 < MiNiMEE> i hope that mentioning CI won't result in a general "kick/ban/ignore" now :D
23:39 < MikeSeth> the XML configuration allows you to include other XML and apply stylesheets to it
23:39 < MikeSeth> so if you really wanted to, you could write a XSLT stylesheeet that does exactly what you want and distribute it as a plugin
23:39 < MiNiMEE> yeah ...
23:40 < MiNiMEE> hm ... didn't think of that ... good point ...
23:40 < trophaeum> MiNiMEE, i do quite a bit of seo work, .html is bullshit (unless u end up with a url ending with .exe from the url generation and its actually html)
23:40 < MikeSeth> trophaeum: it's the stupid urban legends from webmasterworld.com
23:40 < MikeSeth> im telling you
23:41 < MikeSeth> in any given group of 3 SEO "experts" there will be at least 4 contradicting opinions
23:41 < trophaeum> MikeSeth, no its lame ass whitehat seo's who dont test things to find out for themselves *sigh*
23:41 < MiNiMEE> thanks trophaeum ... this makes it rock-solid for me now ... screw .html !
23:41 < MiNiMEE> LOL
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23:41 < MikeSeth> trophaeum: and it all started with one chick writing a bullshit post on her blog so that she could rake in on adsense
23:41 < MikeSeth> god damn these people
23:42 * MikeSeth burns SEO artists at stake
23:42 < MikeSeth> ok, it's time for me to hit the sack
23:42 < MiNiMEE> but hey, some guy came in, sat down with us and told us things among which that "append a .html" thing was ... and now we poor little coders have to find a way to "do it", as nike would have said it ...
23:42 < MikeSeth> DITA's been trying to do me
23:42 < MikeSeth> but I won
23:43 < trophaeum> MiNiMEE, change seo companies lol
23:43 < MikeSeth> consultants
23:43 < MikeSeth> CONSULTANTS
23:43 < MikeSeth> CONSULTANTS!!!!
23:43 < MiNiMEE> it was one guy ... and i took some mentionable stack of money with him when he left ... i didn't ask for his opinion!!!
23:44 < MikeSeth> MiNiMEE: well. You probably can change the extensions in URLs for most of content
23:44 < MikeSeth> but seriously, don't
23:44 < MiNiMEE> i won't ...
23:44 < MikeSeth> you will lose zillions of incoming links
23:44 < MikeSeth> okay
23:45 < MikeSeth> then I can go to sleep :>
23:45 < trophaeum> MiNiMEE, if u want honest seo advice feel free to msg me, im rather bored atm, i can see plenty of little issues on there atm :)
23:45 < MiNiMEE> trophaeum: what about H1 vs H2 ... which one weighs more when it comes to SEO? H1 right?! ...
23:45 < trophaeum> ya
23:47 < MiNiMEE> sure, would be happy to get a little help from someone that acually knows about the topic and doesn't just blurp-out false advice
23:48 < MiNiMEE> here's one for ya: he actually told us to SUBMIT our page to search engines ... now, even i know that this is bullshit!!!
23:48 < trophaeum> uv got 125k incoming links, if u cant get indexed without that with that many links theres something wrong haha
23:49 < MiNiMEE> yep
--- Day changed Wed Jul 02 2008
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01:21 < MiNiMEE> good night guys ... have to hit the sack now
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02:51 < webreg> Hello everyone
03:03 < sikkle> helo webreg
03:11 < webreg> i am new here
03:11 < webreg> i am newbie
03:11 < webreg> there have tutorial screencast for agavi
03:12 < webreg> its easy to install of agavi?
03:12 < sikkle> just give it a try
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05:27 < v-dogg> huomenta
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06:07 < _cheerios> huomenta
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07:10 < _cheerios> http://www.avnetlabs.com/php/php-framework-comparison-benchmarks
07:13 < E_mE> huomenta
07:24 < E_mE> somewhat of an invalid statement: procedural code (aka. spaghetti code)
07:25 < E_mE> _cheerios: that was from the page you linked!
07:26 < v-dogg> hah, procedula code aka. spaghetti :)
07:26 < _cheerios> it's a blog, they're made for adsense, not for facts :)
07:26 < v-dogg> tell that to C people :)
07:32 < E_mE> hah, that guys examples are slower with op-code caches? :/ that doesn't seem right
07:34 < _cheerios> no, he just removed the top benchmarks. the interesting tidbit is how fast vanilla RoR comes out, you know, that slow slow ruby/ror thing!
07:37 < v-dogg> it's said to be slow?
07:37 < marklar|omni> meeh
07:45 < marklar|omni> MikeSeth: here?
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08:05 < E_mE> i shall no longer give AVG the thumbs up for this behaviour, its messed up: http://go.theregister.com/feed/www.theregister.co.uk/2008/06/26/avg_disguises_fake_traffic_as_ie6/
08:08 < v-dogg> hah, nice one
08:09 < v-dogg> I'd imagine AVG is going to see a slight increase in incomming hate mail :)
08:10 < E_mE> we've even seen a 4000 unique hit increase last month
08:10 < E_mE> might be ligitmate but who knows
08:27 < MikeSeth> marklar|omni: rgr
08:28 < MikeSeth> where's wombert
08:28 < MikeSeth> durrr
08:29 < marklar|omni> durr
08:29 < marklar|omni> buki found eyeglasses in his car
08:30 < MikeSeth> not mine lol
08:30 < MikeSeth> http://www.avnetlabs.com/php/php-framework-comparison-benchmarks KEKEKKEKEKE
08:30 < marklar|omni> anything with labs in teh url = fale
08:30 < v-dogg> heh
08:30 < marklar|omni> grr pixelated stock illustration logo
08:31 < marklar|omni> The tests were run on a 1.8Ghz AMD sempron computer with 512Mb RAM running Ubuntu Gutsy (7.10) Desktop.
08:31 < marklar|omni> oh thats exactly what I run my 5mil uniq users a month websites on!
08:31 < marklar|omni> !!
08:33 < marklar|omni> um, how in the world could *any* failwork get 3.6 req/s
08:33 < marklar|omni> it's like they slowed it down on purpose
08:36 < MerlinDMC> ... a "benchmark" ... with no real relevance ^^
08:37 < marklar|omni> heh
08:37 < MerlinDMC> but that cake stuff is curios ... thats less than i would imagine ... seems to be a mistake ...
08:38 < MerlinDMC> cake was not that slow in my evaluations
08:38 < marklar|omni> heh
08:38 < marklar|omni> the cake is, again, a lie
08:38 < _cheerios> debug=on comes to mind
08:40 < MerlinDMC> I wish i would have time to test agavi a little more ^^
08:41 < MerlinDMC> theres much potential ... but without a documentation thats a lot of work :P
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08:52 < MikeSeth> documentation is coming soon
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08:55 < MerlinDMC> MikeSeth, I know ... autumn with V1.0
08:55 < MerlinDMC> spoke with Wombert ;)
08:56 < marklar|omni> http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii5/whatsthename/Funny%20Stuff/permaban.gif
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09:12 < Strzalek> huomenta
09:14 < MerlinDMC> huomenta
09:31 * MikeSeth yawns
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09:33 < MikeSeth> http://www.avnetlabs.com/php/php-framework-comparison-benchmarks should we do this benchmark?
09:49 < v-dogg> hey guys, I still don't know what's the correct way to define custom date/time formats
09:49 < v-dogg> I remember Wombs saying that you don't have to (and aren't supposed to) define translator domains for each format
09:53 < MerlinDMC> MikeSeth, you have time to port das simple app? ^^ ... would be interesting to see the comments I think :P
09:54 < MerlinDMC> s/das/that/ ... nargh ...
09:55 < MikeSeth> v-dogg: me neitehr
09:55 < MikeSeth> we need manuals
09:55 < MikeSeth> MerlinDMC: i havent looked at the sample app
09:55 < MikeSeth> MerlinDMC: I can probably make it work and then send the agavi distro to the guy
09:55 < MikeSeth> cuz he has the box on which it was measured
09:56 < MerlinDMC> MikeSeth, u can build sth. like a sandbox app ... with framework and stuff included ... so that the setup is easy ;)
09:57 < MerlinDMC> the app itself is just the display of a table with data from a db ... afaik
10:05 < MikeSeth> MerlinDMC: basically a 10 minute work
10:05 < MerlinDMC> MikeSeth, 10 Minutes if u know the framework, or have documentation ;)
10:06 < MerlinDMC> I would spend more than 4hours i think
10:06 < MerlinDMC> ^^
10:28 < marklar|omni> hai2u
10:29 < E_mE> MikeSeth: that benchmark such is bullshit im sure
10:30 < impl> humhum
10:30 < E_mE> MikeSeth: somewhat of an invalid statement: procedural code (aka. spaghetti code)
10:32 < impl> it is a BS benchmark
10:32 < impl> it doesn't test any framework features
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10:39 < Flukey> yo yo yo
10:39 < marklar|omni> heh
10:39 < marklar|omni> maik, heard about the bulldozer shit in jlm?
10:40 < v-dogg> impl: aye. yet another totally useless benchmark
10:40 < impl> /sigh
10:53 < MerlinDMC> impl, BS yes ... but many people reading such things ... thats advertising ;)
10:54 < impl> Stupid developers =X
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11:09 < MikeSeth> marklar|omni: yes
11:09 < MikeSeth> marklar|omni: they shot him lol
11:42 < marklar|omni> yea heh
11:42 < marklar|omni> video is funnay
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12:06 < CIA-5> impl * r2559 /branches/impl-build_system/build/build.xml: branches/impl-build_system (refs #689): add project-model-remove and project-template-remove
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12:58 < vjoe> hello
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13:00 < vjoe> do you think that Agavi is a good launchpad to understand the MVC paradigm?
13:02 < _cheerios> good? great!
13:06 < vjoe> okay I will continue reading the documentation then :)
13:06 < vjoe> I still have to completely understand what is a framework
13:07 < v-dogg> vjoe: just remember that MVC in the web world is not implemented in the same way as the "original" MVC (event-observer based)
13:08 < vjoe> regarding MVC, I have only read the Wikipedia article about it
13:08 < vjoe> I know nothing apart from that
13:08 < impl> un momento
13:08 < impl> http://java.sun.com/blueprints/patterns/MVC-detailed.html
13:08 < impl> Take a look at that
13:09 < vjoe> ok, thanks
13:15 < MikeSeth> vjoe: the wikipedia article is pretty accurate
13:17 < vjoe> according to the Sun article, it's only useful to use a MVC type of architecture when developing an application which will have various intefaces
13:17 < vjoe> what about a website?
13:17 < vjoe> do you think it's still worth it?
13:18 < impl> Yeah
13:19 < impl> In this day and age, you're /expected/ to have these Web services, these WML output types, si necesse est
13:19 < vjoe> I see
13:19 < impl> And MVC gives you some sort of flexibility to be able to implement that sanely
13:20 < vjoe> so if you were to develop a website from scratch, you would use MVC right?
13:20 < vjoe> and regarding the three components, I'm not quite understanding the role of the "model"
13:20 < vjoe> the controller seems to be the core of the application and the views are the interfaces
13:20 < vjoe> but what is the model?
13:20 < v-dogg> vjoe: a modern web site has normally at least two interfaces - html and json (or some other output type used via ajax)
13:21 < impl> Well, the controller actually does relatively little besides interface between the view and the model
13:21 < vjoe> hm.. so if I want to use AJAX I have to use MVC?
13:21 < impl> the model is where the beef of your application should generally be
13:21 < vjoe> "beef"?
13:21 < impl> oh sorry :>
13:21 < impl> the main part
13:21 < v-dogg> vjoe: you don't have to but you should
13:21 < vjoe> v-dogg, I see
13:21 < vjoe> impl, what is the main part? :P
13:22 < impl> vjoe: Where you perform operations on your data
13:22 < vjoe> so it's the php or python script?
13:22 < vjoe> or perl... etc
13:22 < v-dogg> vjoe: you don't want to duplicate application logic just because you need both HTML and JSON output.
13:22 < v-dogg> one action - multiple output types
13:22 < vjoe> I see
13:23 < impl> vjoe: Well, I mean, the whole of Agavi for instance is implemented in PHP
13:23 < vjoe> and if the Model is the "core", what is the Controller then?
13:24 < vjoe> the data?
13:24 < impl> No, the controller communicates between the model and the view
13:24 < impl> passes request data around, etc
13:24 < vjoe> hm... :s
13:24 < impl> MikeSeth: http://thismight.be/offensive/uploads/2008/07/01/image/237873_TFPooh.jpg
13:24 < vjoe> the best way to actually understand that is to explore an application right?
13:25 < vjoe> I will continue reading agavi's documentation
13:25 < impl> vjoe: prolly
13:25 < MikeSeth> impl: haha needs more blood
13:29 < Flukey> marklar|omni: which video?
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13:54 < marklar|omni> http://www.nrg.co.il/online/1/ART1/754/605.html
13:54 < marklar|omni> Flukey: ^^
14:00 < _cheerios> hmm, underclocked memory to 667mhz, perhaps now i can use all my mem with the comp remaining stable *crosses fingers*
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14:24 < vjoe> by the way guys, how would you compare Agavi with other frameworks such as Cake or CodeIgniter
14:24 < vjoe> ?
14:30 < impl> Well, you're asking for an obviously biased opinion, but Cake and CI are generally quite a mess
14:33 < vjoe> I found Agavi while reading Wikipedia, I was looking for a "small" framework
14:34 < vjoe> I believe it's easier to start with a smaller one
14:34 < vjoe> my only concern regarding Agavi is that it probably isn't used professionally
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14:38 < _cheerios> critics, ahoy! which one? 1) http://www.ikea.com/PIAimages/58673_PE164158_S4.jpg (450e) 2) http://www.ikea.com/PIAimages/80291_PE204542_S4.JPG (699e)
14:40 < _cheerios> vjoe: it is. agavi just doesn't have as big a following as ci, cake or symfony.
14:41 < vjoe> what do you mean "as big a following"?
14:41 < _cheerios> you can do a highly scientific test by visiting each projects irc channel.
14:43 < vjoe> codeigniter's channel hasn't many more people than this one
14:43 < vjoe> although cakephp seems to be quite popular
14:47 < impl> vjoe: Agavi is used on some quite large sites
14:47 < impl> % nc www.mtv.de 80 | grep X-Powered-By
14:47 < impl> GET / HTTP/1.1
14:47 < impl> X-Powered-By: Agavi/1.0.0-dev on PHP/5.2.6-1~westend+etch1
14:47 < vjoe> sure, but I was talking in terms of jobs and such
14:48 < vjoe> wowo
14:49 < _cheerios> don't expect to get a job with agavi expertee (that goes for pertty much any framework) :)
14:50 < vjoe> actually the other day I came across to someone asking for a CodeIgniter expert
14:50 < vjoe> anyway...
14:50 < vjoe> DOM, Reflection and SPL extensions are required
14:51 < impl> vjoe: As it stands, you really have to sell Agavi with its features, not just "oh well it's the framework that everyone on the Web uses"
14:51 < vjoe> are they installed with the default Debian apache package?
14:51 < impl> I believe they should be, yes
14:52 < vjoe> is it recommended to install Agavi wit hPEAR?
14:52 < vjoe> with PEAR*
14:52 < _cheerios> vjoe: consulting and one time projects, doable, getting a full-time job, harder!
14:53 < vjoe> _cheerios, yes, that's true :D
14:53 < vjoe> besides, learning how to use a framework such as Agavi can be useful with freelance jobs right?
14:54 < _cheerios> like some dude once said, knowledge is power.
14:54 < impl> vjoe: yeah, PEAR is a good way to go
14:55 < _cheerios> so, 1 or 2 ?
14:55 < vjoe> yeah and it's never too many :D
14:55 < vjoe> impl, but isn't it better to copy paste the folder?
14:55 < vjoe> I never used PEAR before
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14:56 < impl> vjoe: You can do it either way
14:56 < impl> it doesn't really matter
14:57 < impl> when you copy the directory, you'll have to make a one-line change* to the agavi-dist file before you can use the script (*fixed and no longer necessary in the new build system that will be in the next release)
14:57 < vjoe> but for instance
14:57 < vjoe> pear install agavi/agavi
14:57 < impl> if you do it that way, then everything just works
14:58 < vjoe> this command will download the folder from the server and paste it in my current folder?
14:58 < vjoe> I'm kinda lost :P
14:59 < impl> no
14:59 < impl> it actually installs it to /usr/share/php or /usr/share/pear depending on your install, generally
14:59 < impl> Which makes the framework files available system-wide
15:00 < vjoe> hm..
15:00 < vjoe> well, I'm going to try
15:00 < vjoe> but using pear is the same thing that using aptitude for instance?
15:01 < impl> Nah, different storage subsystems
15:01 < impl> same idea, though
15:01 < impl> they are package managers
15:01 < vjoe> I see
15:02 < _cheerios> This backtrace appears to be of no use.
15:02 < _cheerios> This is probably because your packages are built in a way which prevents creation of proper backtraces, or the stack frame was seriously corrupted in the crash.
15:03 < _cheerios> crash handler mocking the crash message :)
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15:11 < vjoe> Auto-discovered channel "pear.phpunit.de", alias "phpunit", adding to registry
15:11 < vjoe> registry?
15:11 < vjoe> oh noes!
15:11 < vjoe> kidding :P
15:15 < vjoe> by the way, I installed it without installing the dependencies first
15:15 < vjoe> I supposed they were installed automatically
15:17 < impl> If it installed them, then yes :P
15:17 < vjoe> brb
15:25 < vjoe> back
15:25 < vjoe> impl,
15:25 < vjoe> >or if you want to bundle Agavi with your application
15:25 < vjoe> why would I want to bundle it?
15:27 < impl> To manage the libraries yourself, so it is easy to redistribute, whatever
15:35 < vjoe> and impl, removing it with pear is just "pear uninstall agavi"?
15:38 < impl> something like that, yeah
15:39 < vjoe> now how can I access the framework?
15:39 < vjoe> in the manual it says:
15:39 < vjoe> Agavi comes with a (very simple) sample application. To make it work, all you have to do is adjust samples/pub/index.php to point to agavi.php, whereever it's installed, and maybe change permissions of samples/app/cache so it's writeable by your web server or PHP. Then, fire it up in your browser and play around with it.
15:39 < vjoe> but I don't get it :\
15:42 < impl> Well, you obviously have to have a VirtualHost or some sort of configuration in your Webserver to point to that index.php also
15:43 < vjoe> hm.. :\
15:45 < vjoe> I managed to use the sample file from the zip file
15:45 < vjoe> anyway, I'm starting to understand it
15:45 < vjoe> agavi project
15:45 < vjoe> so the framework is actually a program and not a script
15:47 < impl> Well, it is more like a very large collection of scripts
15:47 < impl> since PHP is not a programming language anyway
15:48 < vjoe> hm, I believe I have just created my first Avaghi project
15:48 < vjoe> I mean
15:48 < vjoe> Agavi
15:48 < vjoe> xD
15:48 < impl> using `agavi project`?
15:48 < vjoe> it created an app and pub folders in the folder I pointed
15:48 < vjoe> yes
15:48 < impl> yeah :P
15:49 < vjoe> so the website is both folders?
15:49 < vjoe> or just the pub one?
15:49 < impl> pub is roughly equivalent to 'www' or 'public_html'
15:49 < impl> the app directory contains all the configuration, logic, for your Web application
15:50 < impl> (models, views, ettc)
15:50 < impl> etc*
15:50 < vjoe> but what if I want to upload my website to a host
15:50 < impl> You need both directories, as well as the Agavi core libraries (installed with PEAR)
15:53 < vjoe> hm. so the server has to have Agavi installed, right?
15:53 < vjoe> I thought the frameworks built stand alone apps... .\
15:53 < vjoe> :\
15:54 < impl> Yes, it does. Which is why it is useful to just download the Agavi source code along with your app.
15:54 < impl> (redistributable)
15:55 < impl> as far as stand-alone... no, they always have library dependencies
15:56 < vjoe> what difference makes if I have the source code?
15:57 < impl> ?
15:57 < vjoe> you said «Which is why it is useful to just download the Agavi source code along with your app.»
15:57 < impl> ah, sorry
15:57 < impl> I poorly worded that
15:57 < impl> I mean, that's why it's useful to have a directory with the Agavi libraries in it distributed in the same project directory as your built application
15:58 < impl> that way it's easy to put onto
15:58 < vjoe> hm wait
15:58 < vjoe> let's suppose that I have an account on some host with FTP access
15:58 < vjoe> which as public_html and etc
15:58 < vjoe> can I have my Agavi website running on it?
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15:59 < impl> Sure
15:59 < MiNiMEE> howdy
15:59 < impl> hallo
16:01 < vjoe> hey
16:01 < vjoe> so impl, I upload the contents of "pub" to "public_html"
16:01 < vjoe> and what do I do next?
16:03 < impl> vjoe: You have to upload app to app, and Agavi libraries somewhere
16:03 < impl> lib or something
16:05 < vjoe> I get it, thanks
16:06 < MiNiMEE> off topic:: who likes MS SharePoint? raise your hands!
16:07 < vjoe> impl, is there a section in the manual which explains the architecture of the framework?
16:07 < CIA-5> david * r2560 /branches/david-system_action_refactoring/src/controller/AgaviController.class.php: make new container for internal redirect to "Unavailable" action, refs #769
16:09 < MiNiMEE> vjoe: http://www.agavi.org/docs/HEAD/manuals/manual/ch03.html ... as a starting point, but it depends on what u need to be explained
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16:10 < vjoe> MiNiMEE, I want to know how a framework works
16:10 < vjoe> for example, how they make the xml files "work"
16:10 < MiNiMEE> real basics ... 1sec
16:10 < vjoe> brb
16:12 < MiNiMEE> vjoe: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model-view-controller ... really basic! but from there you should be able to understand it in principle ...
16:19 < vjoe> back
16:19 < MiNiMEE> wb
16:19 < vjoe> yes MiNiMEE I have already read that
16:19 < vjoe> as well as an article from Sun
16:19 < MiNiMEE> forget the wiki link ...
16:19 < vjoe> but I was talking about xml parsing and that type of stuff
16:20 < MiNiMEE> get it ... you will have to take a look into core yourself ... i am just using it ... :D
16:20 < vjoe> eheh
16:21 < vjoe> by the way,
16:22 < vjoe> >and, of course, the WelcomeToAgaviAction.class.php, WelcomeToAgaviSuccessView.class.php and WelcomeToAgaviSuccess.php template
16:22 < vjoe> where are these files?
16:27 < marklar|omni> ohai2u
16:27 < marklar|omni> in modules/default/
16:27 < marklar|omni> actions, views and templates respectively
16:27 < MiNiMEE> ^^
16:29 < MiNiMEE> src/buildtools/core_templates/defaults/* this is where you can find them when you extract the zip/gz the first time
16:32 < v-dogg> vjoe: this (or parts of it) might be usefull: http://phpseriously.com/archives/8-Getting-Started-with-Agavi-and-Propel-Part-1
16:34 < vjoe> thanks
16:34 < ttj> Muahaha, brilliant! I can fit the new Thinkpad X61s into my portfolio case. \o/
16:35 < ttj> No need to lug along the briefcase anymore if I just need to carry the laptop and some papers.
16:38 < marklar|omni> I want a lowepro computrekker
16:38 < marklar|omni> my current Dicota backpack is nice too
16:39 < vjoe> eheh
16:39 < vjoe> I'm going to buy a Asus F8SN soon :D
16:45 < marklar|omni> nice
16:45 < marklar|omni> meh
16:46 < ttj> Pfft. Mobility + battery life FTW!
16:46 < ttj> Been using this for two hours now and it still has ~4.5 hours left in the battery. \o/
16:47 < E_mE> baaii
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17:29 < marklar|omni> zomg
17:29 < marklar|omni> brainfuck interpreter in lolcode
17:29 < marklar|omni> http://forum.lolcode.com/viewtopic.php?id=51
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17:40 < MrJeep> anyone ever experienced this error with propel ... [wrapped: SQLSTATE[HY000]: General error: 1210 Incorrect arguments to mysql_stmt_execute]
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17:43 < marklar|omni> protip: propel = fail.
17:43 < MrJeep> it's a pdo error before being a propel error
17:46 < MrJeep> oh possibly a simple mysql error
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17:49 < impl> marklar|omni: hohoho@brainfuck interpreter
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18:08 < marklar|omni> heh hai
18:08 < CIA-5> david * r2561 /branches/0.11/ (CHANGELOG etc/phing/AgaviPackageTask.php src/version.php): rc2 version info
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18:24 < CIA-5> impl * r2562 /branches/impl-build_system/build/agavi/script/agavi.php: branches/impl-build_system (refs #689): Fix small oversight
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18:32 < MikeSeth> impl: where's Wombert? O_O
18:33 < impl> I don't know :\
18:33 < impl> Working from home, anyway
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18:36 < marklar|omni> wow
18:36 < marklar|omni> this laptop is winnar.
18:36 < marklar|omni> fbsd in vmware compiling tehportz fgj
18:36 < marklar|omni> and no noticeable effect on the rest of the box
18:37 < impl> maybe it just freebsd that is win
18:37 < impl> :>
18:37 < marklar|omni> It Certainly Is.
18:38 < marklar|omni> (tm)
18:38 < marklar|omni> man, I wish I could make love to freebsd
18:38 < impl> it is*
18:38 < ttj> Man, I don't.
18:38 < marklar|omni> heh
18:38 < marklar|omni> I <3 it
18:38 < impl> well, there's always beastie...
18:38 < marklar|omni> hm
18:38 < ttj> Eww...
18:38 < marklar|omni> might get burned tho
18:38 < marklar|omni> I could help him rape the penguin though
18:38 -!- MerlinDMC [n=MerlinDM@dslb-084-063-145-137.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #agavi
18:38 < ttj> Might get a pitchfork stuck in a nasty place.
18:39 < marklar|omni> buttfork.
18:39 < marklar|omni> heh
18:40 < impl> there used to be a site of a reasonably hot 'FreeBSD girl' that they had at conventions and shit
18:40 < impl> I can't find it now, though
18:41 < marklar|omni> ya
18:41 < marklar|omni> I kidnapped her
18:41 < marklar|omni> :<
18:41 < impl> D:
18:41 < marklar|omni> http://farm1.static.flickr.com/46/111143969_35533831ab.jpg
18:42 -!- MrJeep [n=MrJeep@modemcable136.46-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["I Quit!"]
18:42 < ttj> "A cute BSD chick, who in fact turned out to be a cute BSD boy..."
18:42 < marklar|omni> but you probably meant this:
18:42 < marklar|omni> http://mosel.estg.ipleiria.pt/files/imagens/pics_Ceren_Booth_dbabe08.preview.jpg
18:43 < ttj> Ooh... Not too shabby.
18:43 < marklar|omni> http://www.bleeding.com/~jon/women/BSDGirl.jpg
18:43 < marklar|omni> shopped but nice
18:43 < impl> marklar|omni: ya
18:44 < marklar|omni> TF2 time
18:45 < impl> http://wrzask.pl/fun/bsd_vs_linux/
18:45 < impl> :>>
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19:39 < CIA-5> david * r2563 /tags/0.11.2RC2/: tagging 0.11.2 RC2 for release
19:39 -!- Wombert changed the topic of #agavi to: Welcome to Agavi :: latest: 0.11.2 RC2 :: stable: 0.11.1 :: http://agavi.org/ :: want svn? use http://svn.agavi.org/branches/0.11/ :: http://ohloh.net/projects/5907 :: have a question? Just ask, and wait patiently, as patience is the key to happiness :: logs at http://agavi.org/irclogs/ :: http://trac.agavi.org/wiki/Huomenta || 15:47 now i think about it, it all makes perfect sense :)
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19:45 < marklar|omni> hahaha
19:45 < impl> omg
19:45 < impl> asdf
19:45 < Wombert> ?
19:45 < impl> Wombert: the last one is separated by || and all the other ones are by ::
19:45 < Wombert> omg!
19:46 < Wombert> that was mike!
19:46 < impl> D: D: D:
19:46 -!- Wombert changed the topic of #agavi to: Welcome to Agavi :: latest: 0.11.2 RC2 :: stable: 0.11.1 :: http://agavi.org/ :: want svn? use http://svn.agavi.org/branches/0.11/ :: http://ohloh.net/projects/5907 :: have a question? Just ask, and wait patiently, as patience is the key to happiness :: logs at http://agavi.org/irclogs/ :: http://trac.agavi.org/wiki/Huomenta :: 15:47 now i think about it, it all makes perfect sense :)
19:46 < impl> much better :>
19:46 < marklar|omni> heh
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19:50 < marklar|omni> my gf is sending me funnycat videos
19:50 < marklar|omni> rickroll time
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20:06 < CIA-5> david * r2564 /branches/0.11/ (CHANGELOG src/controller/AgaviExecutionContainer.class.php): Fix #792: Namespace for disabled module forwarding information is wrong (was org.agavi.controller.forwards.disabled, is now org.agavi.controller.forwards.module_disabled)
20:09 < CIA-5> david * r2565 /trunk/ (CHANGELOG src/controller/AgaviExecutionContainer.class.php): merge [2550:2564/branches/0.11]
20:11 < CIA-5> david * r2566 /branches/impl-build_system/ (CHANGELOG src/controller/AgaviExecutionContainer.class.php): merge [2552:2565/trunk]
20:12 < CIA-5> david * r2567 /branches/david-xml_only_config_system/ (CHANGELOG src/controller/AgaviExecutionContainer.class.php): merge [2552:2566/trunk]
20:14 < CIA-5> david * r2568 /branches/david-system_action_refactoring/ (CHANGELOG src/controller/AgaviExecutionContainer.class.php): merge [2551:2567/trunk]
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20:21 < _cheerios> ah. box been stable since boot after going underclocking the ram. better stay like this now too...
20:22 < Wombert> even if you just calculate with 5 bucks for an hour of your work
20:22 < Wombert> I bet you're already into some four figure sum
20:23 < _cheerios> yeah, im at a loss on this one money-wise, deffo.
20:25 < _cheerios> only crash i got was when closing openoffice in kubuntu, googling tells me that's normal. i never use it anyhow. :)
20:25 < CIA-5> david * r2569 /branches/david-system_action_refactoring/ (2 files in 2 dirs): use containers for the rest of the forwards, too, and store everything in container attribs. refs #769
20:27 < Wombert> humm
20:27 < Wombert> that seems done
20:27 < Wombert> could merge
20:27 * Wombert ponders
20:28 < _cheerios> massive commit-runs you guys have done past few days
20:29 < Wombert> mh yeah well getting some stuff done
20:29 < Wombert> I wish I could do this five days a week :/
20:29 < impl> I'm glad the build system is in a usable state now
20:30 < Wombert> <:
20:30 < impl> well, almost, anyway
20:32 < Wombert> yeah just the project wizard, right?
20:32 < impl> yeah
20:32 < impl> well
20:32 < Wombert> does it have an action wizard yet?
20:32 < impl> a couple of other remove ones
20:32 < Wombert> that also asks me for views etc?
20:32 < impl> nah, no wizards yet
20:32 < Wombert> remove is not soooo important I guess
20:33 < impl> I hope I can just do s
20:33 < E_mE[Stilgar> moooo
20:33 < impl> but they weren't working before
20:33 < Wombert> I think so impl
20:33 < impl> properties set inside the called targets don't seem to get set again outside them
20:33 < Wombert> should I do this circular call detection stuff for system actions?
20:33 * Wombert ponders
20:33 < impl> no
20:34 < impl> in fact we should just take that code out altogether :>
20:34 < Wombert> like... when the disabled_module action is in a disabled module ^^
20:34 < Wombert> which
20:34 < impl> all of the code that checks whether the user does something stupid
20:35 < impl> like the maximum nesting limit and everything
20:35 < Wombert> alright then
20:42 < CIA-5> david * r2570 /trunk/ (6 files in 4 dirs): Merging in branch "david-system_action_refactoring", closes #769 (commit also updates CHANGELOG and RELEASE_NOTES)
20:43 < impl> nicee
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21:13 < CIA-5> david * r2571 /branches/david-system_action_refactoring/:
21:13 < CIA-5> R.I.P.
21:13 < CIA-5> [2502:2570/david-system_action_refactoring]
21:13 < CIA-5> killed by a merge
21:13 < CIA-5> the repos will always remember you
21:14 < Wombert> oh crap
21:14 < Wombert> I ruined the headstone inscription
21:14 < Wombert> meh meh
21:16 < impl> how so? :P
21:16 < impl> oh, forgot /branches
21:18 < impl> Wombert: svn propedit svn:log --revprop -r2571 --editor-cmd vim /path/to/branches/blahblahb
21:18 < impl> :x
21:19 < Wombert> mmh
21:19 < Wombert> omg
21:19 < Wombert> http://bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=30622
21:19 < Wombert> ...
21:20 < Wombert> z
21:20 < Wombert> o
21:20 < Wombert> m
21:20 < Wombert> f
21:20 < Wombert> g
21:20 < ttj> Wombert: Watched the new Top Gear episodes?
21:20 < Wombert> ttj: absolutely
21:21 < Wombert> I hope the stunt driver dies soon
21:21 < ttj> Haha.
21:21 < ttj> Well, still, brilliant stuff.
21:21 < Wombert> and I hope they stop bringing two faggots at once for the interview
21:21 < Wombert> other than that... I liiiike!
21:21 < ttj> Ah. I just skipped the interviews.
21:21 < Wombert> actually
21:21 < ttj> But, I need an RS6 sedan.
21:22 < Wombert> I just realized that one of the guys in the first episode actually WAS a faggot
21:22 < _cheerios> i was just "so.. this is top gear" watching that ep
21:22 < Wombert> so my comment was pejorative
21:22 < _cheerios> a fatty and two gay guys. nice show! :p
21:22 < Wombert> sorry :p
21:22 < Wombert> _cheerios: they were both gay? nah
21:22 < ttj> A fatty?
21:22 < ttj> Who?
21:22 < Wombert> clarkson? :p
21:23 < _cheerios> the stunt guy, did you take a look at his stance? :)
21:23 < Wombert> the SIARPC segment is boring. always was. except for some exceptions
21:23 * impl squints
21:23 < ttj> Ah.
21:23 < ttj> Well, Jimmy Carr was great.
21:23 < Wombert> yes, among others
21:23 < Wombert> what I keep noticing is
21:23 < ttj> As was that Pop Idol guy.
21:23 < ttj> What's-his-name.
21:23 < Wombert> how their cutting and camera angles and filters etc gets better each season
21:23 < Wombert> music, too
21:23 < ttj> The music too.
21:23 < ttj> Yeah.
21:23 < Wombert> it's on such an incredibly high level quality-wise
21:24 < ttj> Lots of movie scores.
21:24 < _cheerios> the "almost" feel of the video replay was worth a chuckle.
21:24 < Wombert> lately, yeah
21:24 < ttj> They've always used lots of movie scores.
21:24 < Wombert> ttj: you saw davos -> stelvio last season?
21:24 < ttj> Hmm...
21:24 < Wombert> WAT
21:25 < Wombert> 911 GT3RS / Gallardo Superleggera/Aston V8 N24
21:25 < Wombert> omg!?
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21:25 < ttj> Ah! That one!
21:25 < ttj> I liked it how some poor bastard crashed his Lamborghini later. :P
21:25 < ttj> And sent the picture. :P
21:26 < Wombert> who what how where?
21:26 < ttj> Well, they were first looking for the perfect driving road.
21:26 < ttj> And told others to try it too.
21:26 < ttj> In the following episode some guy had sent some pictures of his road trip.
21:27 < Wombert> really? don't remember that
21:27 < ttj> I recall he had a Murcielago. Then a couple of pictures later the Lambo was in a ditch, upside down. :P
21:27 < Wombert> we're talking about http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyPNqpXq9ms this right?
21:27 < ttj> Yeah, but this was in the following episode.
21:28 < Wombert> ttj: okay. then can we please figure out a way to rob a bank, then buy... say... oh well whatever nice car, and take that trip? kthx
21:28 < ttj> I actually decided that I'm getting a Morgan Plus 8.
21:35 < Wombert> really
21:35 < Wombert> you know its made of wood
21:35 < Wombert> and it will break down all the time
21:37 < ttj> Pfft.
21:37 < ttj> I was in one in Brighton.
21:37 < _cheerios> that 7min vid was better than the whole new ep
21:37 < ttj> Surrounded by M5s and Bentley Continental GTs and everyone was staring at the Morgan.
21:38 < Wombert> _cheerios: there's four segments
21:38 < ttj> But! Someone buy me a BMW 335i coupé.
21:38 < Wombert> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02HRYxn2a0g&feature=related
21:38 < Wombert> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRkGDxBTSF4&feature=related
21:39 < Wombert> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeRN_JzFZX0&feature=related
21:39 < Wombert> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyPNqpXq9ms
21:39 < E_mE[Stilgar> 2CV ;D
21:39 < E_mE[Stilgar> with rocket pack on it hehe
21:39 < _cheerios> ttj: here you go http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2007/05/29/049723.1-lg.jpg
21:39 < Wombert> ttj: what were you doing in brighton
21:40 < Wombert> why were you sitting in a morgan
21:40 < Wombert> and why were you surrounded by bentleys
21:40 < Wombert> and why didn't you drag me along
21:40 < ttj> Wombert: I was sailing there.
21:40 < Wombert> you didn't drive it though did you?
21:40 < ttj> _cheerios: That's what you drive, huh?
21:41 < ttj> Nah, the guy didn't trust me. :P
21:41 < Wombert> lame
21:41 < ttj> Nah, he's a cool guy.
21:41 < ttj> His last name is Morgan. :P
21:41 < ttj> So obviously he also has to have a Morgan in his garage. :P
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22:23 < Wombert> hmm
22:23 < Wombert> impl:
22:23 < Wombert> I wanna supply three params to xsl files
22:23 < Wombert> config file path
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22:23 < Wombert> env name
22:23 < Wombert> and ctx name
22:23 < Wombert> should I call them "agavi.environment"
22:23 < Wombert> or "agavi:environment"
22:23 < Wombert> oh wait
22:25 < Wombert> hmm
22:25 < Wombert> this colon stuff
22:25 < Wombert> hmm
22:25 < impl> um
22:25 < impl> how do you reference a parameter in XSL?
22:25 * vjoe bye
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22:26 < Wombert> $foo
22:26 < Wombert> it'd be $agavi:environment
22:26 < Wombert> which works
22:26 < Wombert> {$...} actually
22:26 < impl> I think that will confuse people if they decide to use a different namespace or something
22:27 < Wombert> works w/o the ns decl
22:27 < impl> namespace name, I mean
22:27 < impl> Yeah, I know
22:27 < impl> That's the problem ;p
22:30 < Wombert> why does it work without me declaring the namespace
22:30 < Wombert> I mesan
22:30 < Wombert> omg php
22:30 < Wombert> or is that libxmlk
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22:33 < Wombert> so imma maek it agavi.lulz, impl?
22:33 < impl> Yeah, I think so
22:42 < CIA-5> david * r2572 /branches/david-xml_only_config_system/src/config/AgaviXmlConfigParser.class.php: Expose environment name, context name and config file path to XSLTProcessor, refs #709
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23:03 < Wombert> ah fark
23:03 < Wombert> refs #710 actually
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--- Log opened Thu Jul 03 04:17:28 2008
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05:02 < marklar|omni> ohai
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06:09 < v-dogg> huomenta
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06:19 < shoan> huomenta
06:26 < MerlinDMC> huomenta
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07:09 < E_mE> huomenta
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07:12 < _cheerios> huomenta
07:17 < Wombert> orly
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08:53 < MikeSeth> http://squashnstretch.googlepages.com/blog_tf2.jpg
08:54 < MikeSeth> marklar|omni: http://squashnstretch.googlepages.com/blog_tf2.jpg
08:54 < MikeSeth> marklar|omni: http://squashnstretch.googlepages.com/blog_tf2.jpg
08:54 < MikeSeth> marklar|omni: http://squashnstretch.googlepages.com/blog_tf2.jpg
08:54 < MikeSeth> marklar|omni: http://squashnstretch.googlepages.com/blog_tf2.jpg
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08:58 < MikeSeth> impl: http://squashnstretch.googlepages.com/blog_tf2.jpg
09:02 < Wombert> mildly lulz
09:02 < _cheerios> does not compute
09:03 < shoan> i dont get it either
09:06 < MikeSeth> Wombert: chat tonite?
09:07 < Wombert> yesplz
09:12 < Wombert> gah
09:12 < Wombert> this xml namespace stuff
09:12 < Wombert> beh
09:19 < Wombert> meh meh meh
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09:51 < impl> Wombert: agavi project should do the same as agavi project-create except create default actions/views/whatever right?
09:52 < Wombert> err
09:52 < impl> s/except/plus also/
09:52 < impl> and should it prompt the user for the names, like the current build system?
10:08 < Wombert> yeah
10:08 < Wombert> or
10:08 < Wombert> hm
10:08 < Wombert> doesn't have to, I guess...
10:08 < Wombert> well
10:09 < Wombert> its mostly about the module name, not the action names, I guess
10:09 < Wombert> right, v-dogg?
10:11 < v-dogg> wotwotwot
10:11 < impl> Wombert: dunno, however you'd like it
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10:14 < v-dogg> so "project-create" is more or less like "project" currently?
10:14 < v-dogg> and what would "project" do?
10:15 < Wombert> there is no "project" atm afaik
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10:17 * Wombert smacks hay fever
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10:20 < v-dogg> Spicachu
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11:20 < Wombert_> zomg
11:20 < Wombert_> factories.xml = fail
11:21 < Wombert_> why doesn't it have a plural container tag for all that stuff
11:21 < Wombert_> zomg zomg zomg
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11:21 < impl> change it ö
11:22 < v-dogg> womb womb womb
11:23 < v-dogg> tell me, good sir
11:23 < v-dogg> what was the proper way to define custom datetime formats?
11:23 < v-dogg> was there some other way than traslation domains?
11:23 < MikeSeth> v-dogg: you may want to stop calling people spics and wombs :>
11:24 < v-dogg> nah :)
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11:39 < MerlinDMC> I'm currently looking at user authentication: addCredential() uses the storage subsystem now if in factories.xml the storage class is set to AgaviSessionStorage the credentials are only persistent in session or is the AgaviSecurityUser class using another storage backend?
11:47 < v-dogg> it uses session storage
11:49 < MerlinDMC> thx
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12:03 < impl> Wombert: figured out that problem with the user-defined elements not working right
12:04 < Wombert> ?
12:04 < impl> for some reason (during parsing I guess), it gets created as UnknownElement instead of the task class
12:04 < impl> and then it gets converted later
12:04 < impl> but that doesn't happen the second time around
12:04 < impl> so it just b0rks
12:04 < impl> anyway I just got rid of the initialize target altogether
12:04 < impl> and I think it'll work now
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12:39 < impl> vjoe: I don't think so, but take a look at this patch: http://trac.agavi.org/attachment/ticket/614/chapter3-first-sections.patch
12:39 < vjoe> huh?
12:39 < vjoe> hi by the way
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12:58 < MrJeep> morning
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13:05 < impl> vjoe: sorry, was referring to something from like a day ago by accent
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13:18 < impl> Wombert: for the action wizard, let the user specify what they want for the view names, or just create a Success view?
13:18 < Wombert> nah, ask for the view names to create
13:18 < Wombert> as it is now, basically
13:18 < impl> okey
13:18 < v-dogg> absolutely
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13:22 * Wombert kicks xml
13:22 < MikeSeth> Wombert: clan raep tonight?
13:22 < MikeSeth> ;>
13:22 < Wombert> hmm
13:22 < Wombert> nah
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13:34 < _cheerios> ikea visits are exhausting x_X
13:34 < ttj> Ikea visitors should be castrated.
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13:35 < _cheerios> they serve hot dogs for 50cents on your way out, and soft icecream too! mm
13:49 < E_mE> MikeSeth: with emacs can you doing the following? swap this line of code "$this->cats = $array['cats'];" to "$array['cats'] = $this->cats;" ??
13:49 < E_mE> using the "=" as a pivot?
13:50 < E_mE> _cheerios: whole hot dogs? with buns and all?
13:50 < ttj> Mmm... Buns...
13:50 < MikeSeth> I'd teach a macro for this
13:50 < ttj> E_mE: Regexps?
13:52 < E_mE> how would you manage it with regex?
13:53 < E_mE> teach a macro.. that sounds interesting
13:53 < E_mE> what ive the value wasn't always cats, might be dogs, dear etc
13:53 < MikeSeth> E_mE: yeah you can teach emacs macros, then edit them and have emacs repeat them
13:53 < impl> M-x replace-regexp
13:53 < impl> would work
13:54 < impl> assuming you don't do anything really funky
13:54 < MikeSeth> but regexps are ugly :>
13:54 * impl shrugs :P
13:54 < ttj> "How would I go about embedding a nail into a piece of wood?" "Use a hammer." "But hammers are ugly... :("
13:54 < impl> ouch :>
13:55 * MikeSeth smacks ttj
13:55 < MikeSeth> invalid analogy
13:55 < _cheerios> E_mE: small bun with a long dog
13:55 < MikeSeth> in our case there's more than just regexps :>
13:55 < impl> you could use a sledgehammer
13:55 < impl> or a teapot
13:56 < ttj> Sledge_hammer_.
13:56 < impl> THEY ARE DIFFERENT
13:56 < ttj> Hammer.
13:56 < impl> Wikipedia has a separate article on it, so it's a different thing.
13:56 * E_mE runs away from the cross firee
13:56 < E_mE> ill have to check out emacs macros
13:57 < ttj> Or... Switch to a proper editor. Like vi. *ducks*
13:58 < impl> blasphemy
13:58 < E_mE> i use nano atm for console things
13:58 * ttj throws stones at impl
13:58 * impl eats
13:58 < E_mE> but im starting to outstrech its abilities
13:59 < ttj> Interesting. Didn't know that moron, imbecile, and idiot are all tied to IQ ranges.
13:59 < ttj> 51-70, 26-50, and 0-25, respectively.
14:01 < E_mE> IQ tests are bullshit
14:01 < E_mE> doesn't describe peoples intelligence
14:02 < E_mE> unless it implies that everyones head works the same way
14:02 < E_mE> you*
14:02 < impl> Well, that's why they are 'standardized'
14:02 < impl> but tbh Binet can go fuck himself
14:04 < Wombert> lunch
14:04 * Wombert &
14:05 < impl> bit late :>
14:11 < Wombert> oh
14:11 < Wombert> I just found the glass of apple soda I've been looking for for two hours
14:11 < Wombert> meh
14:11 < Wombert> lunch, rly
14:11 * Wombert &
14:15 < MikeSeth> Wombert: ZOMG
14:15 < ttj> "Lunch? You gotta be kidding! Lunch is for wimps!"
14:16 < ttj> Speaking of which, the sequel to Wall Street will be out next year! \o/
14:18 < MikeSeth> ttj: have YOU seen Clerks 2?
14:19 < ttj> Yeah. Quite a while ago, though.
14:19 < ttj> No wait.
14:19 < ttj> Was it Clerks.
14:19 < ttj> No, it was the original Clerks.
14:19 < MikeSeth> Watch Clerks 2!
14:19 < MikeSeth> probably the best movie of the year
14:19 < ttj> Will do, if I can get my hands on it.
14:20 < E_mE> Ah Clerk is great :D
14:20 < E_mE> Jay and Silent bob are great ;)
14:26 < MikeSeth> ttj: mininova.org :>
14:27 < MikeSeth> E_mE: have you seen the new movie? Watch it it's incredible
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14:31 < E_mE> ill attempt to at some point
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15:26 * E_mE Hugs and Strokes his Directed acyclic graph
15:28 < impl> GAH, I can't understand how Phing can possibly work so stupidly
15:28 < impl> this is ridiculous
15:28 < impl> the entire architecture is just wrong
15:36 * Wombert stabs xml
15:46 < Wombert> *thunder*
15:46 < Wombert> *lightning*
15:48 < impl> *PHING*
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16:27 < E_mE> how can i display a href + the text inside the with xpath
16:29 < E_mE> i thought about concat() but it doesnt work
16:30 < E_mE> just returns the first row
16:32 < Wombert> eh?
16:33 < Wombert> you need evaluate() then, not query()
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16:45 < E_mE> byeeeee
16:47 < erisco> bye
16:47 < erisco> !huomenta
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17:03 < kaos|work> impl
17:03 < kaos|work> ping
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