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06:47 < v-dogg> huomenta
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07:56 < Spica> huomenta
07:56 < Spica> v-dogg: Are we the ealy birds? :)
08:31 < Arme[N]> huomenta
08:32 < Spica> Hi! How's it going?
08:32 < Arme[N]> beong early bird? 
08:32 < Arme[N]> hmmm, not bad
08:32 < Arme[N]> being*
08:40 < Spica> I do think Umbrello has come a long way from the version I used the first time some years ago.
08:41 < Spica> But, nonetheless, it is no where near professional quality software. :(
08:48 < v-dogg> Spica: I'm not, Erica is
08:49 < Spica> v-dogg: Ah, me neither but Spinnu. :)
08:49 < Spica> I am just a light sleeper... fortunately I do not even required much sleep.
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11:03 < _cheerios> huomenta
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11:29 < _cheerios> latest LOST episode was really something
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12:36 < Whisller> hi :)
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15:00 < MrJeep> Good morning
15:04 < Spica> Morning!
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15:42 < Spica> What would be the best way to implement a chain-of-events with Agavi? I.e. I would like to have a confirmation in all my delete actions but I am not sure what would be the best way to do it.
15:42  * Spica is not going to write a single line of JavaScript. That's for sure.
16:31 -!- brownie [n=benjamin@drms-590d5d99.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #agavi
16:31 < brownie> Hey folks
16:31 < Spica> Hello1
16:32 < brownie> When I want to check out agavi from the svn, which is the most recent version? the trunk or the branches/0.11 ??
16:32 < Spica> branches/0.11
16:33 < brownie> Okay! Thanks very much
16:33 < Spica> nb
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17:48 < _cheerios> Total:                  47616.2ms +/- 10.3% (p4-2000Mhz)
17:48 < _cheerios> same test ran at 22k ms when I tried at work (c2d laptop)
17:49 < _cheerios> http://webkit.org/perf/sunspider-0.9/sunspider.html
17:50 < _cheerios> and things should be 3-4x faster in ff3, compared to ff2 I ran these on.
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18:17 < Spica> Is there a good example somewhere how to use AgaviFormPopulationFilter?
18:18 < Spica> I am currently validating my forms but I am not able to fill them with the original user input.
18:23 < _cheerios> config/global_filters.xml and you're set
18:23 < Spica> Oh..?
18:23  * Spica looks into it.
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18:44 < Rendez> hi
18:44 < Rendez> Does anybody knows some good php code highlighter?
18:44 < Rendez> Like in the pasties
18:50 < impl> PHP has one built-in
18:50 < impl> http://php.net/highlight_string
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18:59 < marklar|omni> hi
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21:43 < E_mE> huomenta
22:01 < _cheerios> http://static.iltalehti.fi/viihde/teraseuroviisutAML_410_vi.jpg finland zero points tradition coming back for this years eurovision
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22:08  * pookey moos
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22:27 < dsias> Hi
22:27 < dsias> I'm looking for more sample applications
22:28 < dsias> I'm also looking for docs on routing and decorators and slots
22:28 < dsias> or a good sample
22:30 < _cheerios> have you checked http://www.mail-archive.com/users@lists.agavi.org/msg00143.html ?
22:31 < dsias> not yet, thanks
22:31 < dsias> Who is updating documentation?
22:32 < _cheerios> v-dogg/Wombert/kaos
22:46 < v-dogg> currently no-one unless there is something urgent
22:46 < v-dogg> i.e. something totally wrong with the current docs
22:47 < v-dogg> as far as I know wombs and kaos are re-organizing the docs and trying to find a suitable format
22:50 < E_mE> yo pookey
22:53 < E_mE> <-- Jeramy pookey
23:00 < pookey> hi E_mE :)
23:04 < E_mE> you had a looked at agavi?
23:05 < pookey> nope
23:05 < pookey> not yet :)
23:05 < pookey> I looked briefly at what docs there were 
23:08 < v-dogg> no no no, don't start from the docs :)
23:08 < pookey> hi v-dogg!
23:08 < v-dogg> evening
23:10 < impl> What was the markup format that Wombert was interested in before?
23:10 < E_mE> pookey: prob best to start with the sample app or v-dogg your cms example
23:10 < E_mE> ?
23:10 < E_mE> :)
23:10 < pookey> v-dogg: didn't you visit us in #doctrine not long ago?
23:13 < v-dogg> I'm still there, idle though
23:14 < v-dogg> E_mE: tequila isn't a bad way to start either, although there is very little there yet
23:15 < v-dogg> but there is a basic structure, configs and all that
23:18 < v-dogg> but I'm off to bed. laterzzzz
23:18 < pookey> me too
23:18 < pookey> night 
23:19 < E_mE> nite
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08:44 < _cheerios> raaaaaaa! huomenta.
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10:16 < Spica> huomenta
10:28 < E_mA> huomenta
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11:10 < v-dogg> huomenta
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11:20 < Whisller> hi
11:29 < Spica> Um.. why does my FormPopulationFilter dies on html entities like &nbsp;, &ouml and &copy;?
11:29 < Spica> Some of them are not even in the form.
11:30 < _cheerios> it expects xhtml
11:30 < _cheerios> Whisller, do you have an auto-"hi" on join?
11:31 < Spica> _cheerios: Eh... I've always thought that the entities are xhtml, too.
11:32 < Spica> Could you advise the ignorant: how should I replace them?
11:32 < Whisller> _cheerios: no but what else I can say when I come in into channel ;p If you want I will be saying "Good Morning _cheerios" :P
11:32 < _cheerios> Spica, use numeric format &#
11:33 < Spica> Umh.. how that is more xhtml?
11:35 < Whisller> I should eat some breakfast
11:38 < Spica> _cheerios: Could you explain why the numeric format is better? Named entities are more intuitive, imo.
11:40 < _cheerios> Spica, hmm.. perhaps the (more) correct way of explanation is that the input goes thru an XML parser, where these named entities do not exist by default (=error), but are defined in unicode that you can map via the entitys numeric representation
11:43 < Spica> _cheerios: Figures, thanks!
11:45 < Spica> One more question, though. I have a disabled input element on the page which just shows a timestamp. Why the  FormPopulationFilter class does not populate that input field, too?
11:48 < _cheerios> no idea :)
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11:58 < _cheerios> Spica, (if no errors on your end) my hunch is that specs define that such fields are not part of the final form data
12:06 < Spica> Can I then manually input the data into FormPopulationFilter so that it would populate the disabled element?
12:07 < _cheerios> yes, or not use disabled fields to have the data there on submit
12:09 < Spica> Hmm.. okay.
12:10 < Spica> Then (please bear with me), now that I have the population filter enabled, should I use it to populate all my forms in the first place? I.e. no more <?= $template["foo"]; ?> in the templates but instead load the population filter with the data in the view?
12:13 < _cheerios> yes
12:17 < _cheerios> Spica, http://p.caboo.se/private/rs4ovdt27b5lekccqobkq
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12:47 < Spica> Ah, okay. Thanks again!
12:48 < Spica> by the way, I noticed that the form elements in the sample app also had an id attribute like fe-*. Is that just a convention or of some importance?
12:52 < _cheerios> just a convention
12:53 < Spica> ok
12:53 < Spica> Thank you for all the help, _cheerios!
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13:27 < _cheerios> one seed on torrent and 900kB/s... this should happen more often.
13:28 < Spica> _cheerios: Again, is it a convetion to name input tag as someForm[someName] or is it of importance?
13:28 < Spica> *tags
13:29 < _cheerios> name="form[username]" id="fe-username" // the name="" is using array syntax, the id="" is just a convetion
13:30 < _cheerios> benefit of array syntax is you can get the whole form via $rd->getParameter('form') instead of referring to every variable separately.
13:30 < Spica> Ah, okay.
13:30  * Spica is convinced that "ignorance is a bliss" == false.
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14:38 < marklar|omni> haiz
14:38 < MrJeep> hi
14:38 < MrJeep> bad news 
14:38 < MrJeep> I've been... kinda fired last friday
14:39 < MrJeep> so I'm on my own for some time i guess
14:41 < marklar|omni> you're welcome here
14:41 < marklar|omni> we're hiring
14:41 < marklar|omni> :D
14:41 < marklar|omni> you'll just have to leave frostland
14:41 < marklar|omni> for jewland
14:43 < MrJeep> hehe lol
14:43 < _cheerios> MrJeep, ouch :(
14:43 < MrJeep> thnx :P
14:44 < MrJeep> _cheerios:  yeah this sucks.. but I guess i was meant to happen
14:44 < MrJeep> honestly I was bored there
14:44 < MrJeep> not enought to leave tho
14:45 < MrJeep> anyway, they decided they won't have much work for me in the future
14:45 < MrJeep> so, pick up your stuff and good bye
14:46 < MrJeep> So, if they were honest, it was not my fault
14:48 < _cheerios> it'll be ok as long as you have some money in the bank, and a place to stay at till a new gig.
14:51  * marklar|omni sets up a fund
14:52 < marklar|omni> donate now, all* proceedings donated to MrJeep!!
14:52 < MrJeep> lol
14:52 < MrJeep> I'll surely be ok
14:52 < marklar|omni> * all may or may not mean 100% of all proceedings
14:52 < MrJeep> ahah  :P
14:52 < marklar|omni> ** all should be thus construed as none
14:52 < marklar|omni> paypal@mark.org.il
14:52 < marklar|omni> donate now!
14:52 < marklar|omni> :D
14:53 < _cheerios> evil way to rack up some beer money ! :D
14:54 < marklar|omni> hehe
14:54 < marklar|omni> actually, I'm doing stock photos for that
14:55 < marklar|omni> http://media.mark.org.il/main.php?g2_itemId=893
15:00 < _cheerios> aw, SPL iterations was tough to get my head around.
15:05 < _cheerios> it's not pretty, but it works: http://p.caboo.se/private/swmjfj9kqhqjr7gutyyxpw
15:08 < _cheerios> magic comes with quite a performance penalty. that's only a single loop and it's down to 200req/s :)
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16:14 < saracen> Looking for a decent cs1.6 player, who's online all of the time, to replace some cunt whom only serves that purpose. 
16:28 < _cheerios> aww, $foo::foo(); doesn't work until php 5.3 :/
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16:57 < impl> _cheerios: We had to push like hell for that to be included too
16:57 < impl> [We = PHP community]
17:09 < _cheerios> i was reading on the cost of magic last night: http://www.garfieldtech.com/blog/magic-benchmarks
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17:18 < Whisller> good evening
17:22 < _cheerios> last 8hrs+ by just looking into SPL and iterating some vars. Ugh :D
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17:43 < Whisller> SPL don't have a good documentation
17:43 < Whisller> btw new Date object is from spl?
17:47 < _cheerios> haven't deal with dates for a while. didn't see in the spl pages i browsed atleast.
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17:58 < v-dogg> Whisller: Date?
17:58 < v-dogg> DateTime?
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18:58 < lucifer4u> hello
19:05 < _cheerios> heelou
19:07 < _cheerios> impl, good times when we can $self::fornicate() in PHP too
19:08 < marklar|omni> heh
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19:15 < _cheerios> *fap* *fap* it works
19:18 < marklar|omni> kek
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19:33 < Whisller> _cheerios : yes
19:33 < _cheerios> marklar|omni, first attempt at yet-another-orm: http://p.caboo.se/private/4azahdhed9lkwqx9lw
19:34 < marklar|omni> private pasta is private
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19:34 < marklar|omni> meh
19:35 < marklar|omni> I want LINQ + php + oracle
19:35 < _cheerios> marklar|omni, ah, didnt know theyre tied to ip: http://p.caboo.se/160184
19:35 < impl> _cheerios: Looks pretty similar to Doctrine
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19:37 < _cheerios> Impl, yeah. except i wanted more magic, more speed and features I need.. and I didnt want to hack doctrine (27k LOC vs <1k for my attempt)
19:39 < impl> I want to write a generator-style ORM that can create code for multiple different languages
19:39 < marklar|omni> yeah
19:39 < marklar|omni> something like
19:39 < marklar|omni> maybe a language
19:39 < marklar|omni> that would query stuff
19:39 < marklar|omni> and have structure
19:39 < marklar|omni> hmm
19:39 < impl> you know what
19:39 < impl> You're not funny
19:39 < marklar|omni> haha
19:39 < marklar|omni> *stab*
19:39 < impl> :D
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19:41 < marklar|omni> heh
19:41 < _cheerios> impl, what? :)
19:43 < impl> _cheerios: A Propel-style generator that can create the ORM classes for several languages (C++, Ruby, PHP, whatever)
19:44 < impl> using the same source
19:44 < _cheerios> ah. yeah, i'm doing Model classes a bit different. didnt start yet, but I like the syntax enough that I might even want to use it :)
19:45 < marklar|omni> impl: db -> xml -> code
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20:26 < _cheerios> impl, what kind of features should a decent orm in 2008 have?
20:26 < impl> I dunno
20:27 < impl> Non-suckage
20:27 < impl> and speed
20:27 < v-dogg> haha, "non-suckage"
20:28 < _cheerios> then i'm all set.
20:28 < v-dogg> :D
20:32 < _cheerios> i'm a bit disappointed with the speed. it's only 5x faster than doctrine when doing that same query. :/
20:36 < _cheerios> buuuuut... it's been a fun project, even as it ate my weekend :|
20:38 < _cheerios> ofc, next i'll likely find some bug which totally blows up the code and makes the project useless for any real use.
20:38 < marklar|omni> hm
20:38 < marklar|omni> anyone done mysql replication?
20:38  * _cheerios waves
20:38 < marklar|omni> does it work?
20:38 < marklar|omni> single master
20:38 < marklar|omni> multiple slaves
20:39 < _cheerios> yeah, it's solid.
20:39 < marklar|omni> k
20:39 < marklar|omni> min. version?
20:39 < _cheerios> i wouldn't touch anything below 5
20:44 < _cheerios> *sighs* should've done an orm two years ago already. :[
20:45 < lucifer4u> _cheerios:  how do you work with relations in your ORM?
20:46 < _cheerios> i havent done the models code yet, but was thinking of something in the lines of http://p.caboo.se/160224
20:48 < impl> _cheerios: why is all that stuff stored in *strings*?
20:48 < _cheerios> i've seen all kinds of advanced syntax for some orms where you build up queries from several objects, but i'll probably be sticking to quite basics to get this thing to alpha quality
20:48 < impl> var $name = array('type' => 'character', 'length' => 50)
20:49 < impl> or something
20:49 < _cheerios> impl, due non-suckage approach
20:49 < _cheerios> those models will then be read, and something like you just typed will be created, which I hopefully will never have to see
20:49 < saracen> impl: CRLF misses you
20:49 < impl> saracen: Okay
20:50 < marklar|omni> hi2u
20:50 < impl> _cheerios: What's wrong with just creating arrays to begin with?
20:51 < _cheerios> *shrug* it felt cleaner when i was typing those models in.
20:52 < saracen> impl: CRLF misses you
20:53 < impl> saracen: I acknowledged that
20:53 < impl> Don't bring CRLF here, it's not what this channel needs
20:53 < saracen> What the hell, are you reading my mind?!
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20:53 < impl> Yes
20:53 < impl> and I'm not kidding
20:53 < LBO> hi guys.
20:54 < impl> Good afternoon
20:54 < marklar|omni> hi
20:54 < marklar|omni> evening
20:54 < saracen> Why would I? Infact, they wouldn't come. I'm pretty sure this isn't their thing.
20:54 < marklar|omni> buy the gf a samsung 226bw for graphics work? y/n
20:54 < impl> I mean, don't even bring it up here
20:54 < marklar|omni> they're less than  $400
20:54 < LBO> I ve got the question, is there any cache mechanism implemented in agavi (i am not talking about biultin config cache)?
20:55 < impl> there is an execution cache
20:56 < LBO> hmmm, do U have any links that could meet my needs?
20:56 < _cheerios> marklar|omni, lenovo x2220 something coming up soon (like now), 22" 1920x1200 S-PVA
20:56 < marklar|omni> hmm
20:56 < marklar|omni> bd is in april
20:56 < marklar|omni> not sure they'll be imported thatn soon
20:56 < marklar|omni> sec
20:57 < marklar|omni> http://www.zap.co.il/zapnewmodels.asp?Sog=C-Monitor&DB187910=316436
20:57 < marklar|omni> that's all there is
20:58 < LBO> impl, found that, http://trac.agavi.org/ticket/78. But it is not very usefull :(
20:59 < impl> Yeah, I've never used it myself
20:59 < impl> I recall it being pretty confusing to configure
21:00 < LBO> As much as i red it could very powerfull   -  damn incomplete docs :/
21:00 < LBO> can u tell where to look for that i source?
21:01 < LBO> in source*
21:01 < impl> Yeah... one second
21:01 < _cheerios> marklar|omni, ah yeah, Lenovo L220X was the model. something i picked up in recent 1920x1200 res low-priced monitor threads.
21:02 < impl> The caching is part of http://trac.agavi.org/browser/trunk/src/filter/AgaviExecutionFilter.class.php
21:02 < marklar|omni> hmm
21:02 < marklar|omni> I'm actually looking for something with reliable colours
21:02 < impl> and here's the XML schema for caching: http://trac.agavi.org/browser/trunk/src/config/xsd/caching.xsd
21:02 < marklar|omni> wide screen might be an advantage for graphics work (more sidebar space)
21:02 < LBO> thanks man, own ya a beer :)
21:02 < LBO> hmmmm, are U polish?
21:02 < impl> :) if you can catch Wombert or kaos when they're online, they can help you out more probably
21:03 < impl> I'm not Polish, no
21:03 < marklar|omni> there was someone from poland here, no?
21:03 < impl> yeah, er, what's his name
21:03 < impl> splatch
21:03 < marklar|omni> yeah
21:03 < marklar|omni> him
21:03 < LBO> hmmm, sorry, i thought ive seen u on one of polish php forums... my bad
21:04 < marklar|omni> hrmpf
21:04 < impl> I don't think so
21:04  * marklar|omni ponders a Sigma 17-70 again
21:04 < marklar|omni> oh, new pics.
21:04 < marklar|omni> http://media.mark.org.il/main.php?g2_itemId=482
21:05 < LBO> by gone, thanks once again
21:05 < LBO> yand i will try to catch wombert on that... ooooow, one more thing
21:06 < LBO> some time ago i asked how to pass params to slots
21:06 < LBO> wombert, i think it was him told me, to create new execution container for that
21:06 < LBO> can u tell me how to that? ic action or in config?
21:07 < LBO> to do that*
21:08 < LBO> i think about something like in Zend Framework _action plugin - maybe ure familiar with that.
21:08 < _cheerios> someone's been searching thru their house for all kinds of stuff to shoot
21:11 < marklar|omni> haha yeah
21:11 < marklar|omni> was just trying to figure out how to take those "clean" shots
21:11 < marklar|omni> white bg and stuff
21:11 < marklar|omni> gonna build a softbox later this week
21:14 < _cheerios> that slowly loading lightbox(?) effect you have there reminded me again that I need a faster machine, or dev on windows/macosx to get a faster (js) web-experience
21:15 < marklar|omni> hehe
21:15 < marklar|omni> it's smooth here
21:15 < marklar|omni> and this lappy isn't that powerful
21:16 < marklar|omni> c2d t7250, 2gb ram, winxp
21:16 < marklar|omni> have you tried latest ff beta?
21:16 < marklar|omni> it's slick as hell
21:16 < _cheerios> marklar|omni, http://webkit.org/perf/sunspider-0.9/sunspider.html
21:17 < _cheerios> what do you get when you run that?
21:17 < marklar|omni> sec
21:18 < marklar|omni> long as heck
21:18 < marklar|omni> too many benchmarks heh
21:18 < _cheerios> photographer without patience? wth :)
21:18 < marklar|omni> haha
21:18 < marklar|omni> there are two kinds of us
21:18 < marklar|omni> those that stalk
21:19 < marklar|omni> and those that cheat and set-up the scene
21:19 < _cheerios> i get 49000ms on that benchmark. that'll give you some idea on how slow things are on my end.
21:19 < marklar|omni> I cheat.
21:19 < marklar|omni> oh hm
21:19 < marklar|omni> it's not done here yet
21:19 < marklar|omni> prolly 3rd iteration or so
21:19 < _cheerios> it does 5
21:19 < marklar|omni> avgs the result?
21:19 < _cheerios> yep
21:20 < marklar|omni> btw
21:20 < marklar|omni> ever encounter a mysql box that's, like, not really loaded (30-40gb db size, around 250qps)
21:20 < marklar|omni> with really high wait i/o?
21:20 < marklar|omni> can't pinpoint the contention
21:21 < marklar|omni> it's a 1u dell something-or-other with raid 1+0
21:22 < marklar|omni> 8 gigs of ram, around 90% utilization
21:22 < _cheerios> some backup script in the background?
21:22 < marklar|omni> nah, nothing of the sort
21:22 < marklar|omni> if visualized, the wio corresponds to load and amt. of users
21:23 < marklar|omni> I'm thinking extraneous indexes being updated constantly
21:23 < marklar|omni> zomg finally
21:23 < marklar|omni> RESULTS (means and 95% confidence intervals)
21:23 < marklar|omni> --------------------------------------------
21:23 < marklar|omni> Total:                 19131.8ms +/- 1.0%
21:23 < marklar|omni> ff 20012
21:24 < _cheerios> same, but on linux, on a p2-2000mhz
21:24 < _cheerios> *p4 :)
21:24 < marklar|omni> shouldn't be that sluggish
21:24 < marklar|omni> prescott?
21:24 < _cheerios> it probably would be fine on windows
21:24 < marklar|omni> nah
21:24 < marklar|omni> nothing is fine on windows
21:24 < marklar|omni> try ff3b3
21:25 < _cheerios> Northwood
21:25 < marklar|omni> hm
21:25 < _cheerios> i bought this rig in '01
21:25 < marklar|omni> top of the line
21:25 < marklar|omni> hehe
21:25 < _cheerios> yeah, lcd was the most expensive part, 550e for a 17" 1280x1024
21:25 < marklar|omni> my pc at home is a c2d 6420, 8800 gts 640 and 2gb of ram
21:26 < marklar|omni> never sees anything heavier than chessmaster
21:26 < marklar|omni> after crysis, that is
21:26 < marklar|omni> cost me about $1k usd in june 07
21:36 < _cheerios> seems to be the roughly the amount you sink on a new rig year after year
21:40 < marklar|omni> yep
21:40 < marklar|omni> lappy cost me about the same
21:40 < marklar|omni> inspiron 1520
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22:44 < E_mE[Stilgar]> huomenta!
22:50 < MikeSeth_> im back im back im baaaaaaaaaaaaaaack
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23:24 < E_mE[Stilgar]> ah good journey then?
23:24 < MikeSeth_> well
23:24 < MikeSeth_> relatively
23:24 < MikeSeth_> my airline fucked up a little
23:24 < E_mE[Stilgar]> i was delay by 2 hours
23:24 < MikeSeth_> me too 
23:24 < E_mE[Stilgar]> eek
23:24 < MikeSeth_> they loaded the wrong food into the plane
23:24 < E_mE[Stilgar]> how long did it delay it for?
23:25 < E_mE[Stilgar]> did it contain pork =P
23:26 < E_mE[Stilgar]> i nearly missed my train as well :S managed to get into paddington at 11:55, 5 minutes before departure
23:26 < MikeSeth_> i dunno
23:26 < MikeSeth_> the way it looked
23:26 < MikeSeth_> i think they just lied about the food
23:26 < MikeSeth_> they had some "special" cargo to load into the plane
23:26 < E_mE[Stilgar]> :|
23:27 < E_mE[Stilgar]> weird
23:27 < MikeSeth_> when it landed in israel they kept us in the plane like 20 mins before letting us out
23:27 < MikeSeth_> which is really consistent with "special" cargo
23:27 < E_mE[Stilgar]> israel up to naughty things again hehe
23:28 < E_mE[Stilgar]> odd...!
23:28 < MikeSeth_> hehe
23:29 < E_mE[Stilgar]> so you going to the next phplondon conf?
23:29 < E_mE[Stilgar]> ;)
23:29 < MikeSeth_> when?
23:29 < E_mE[Stilgar]> next year =P 
23:30 < MikeSeth_> prolly :>
23:31 < E_mE[Stilgar]> i really enjoyed it.. was wicked and all very interesting :)
23:31 < E_mE[Stilgar]> i better get off to bed anyhow... my lack of sleep isnt good hehe
23:32 < E_mE[Stilgar]> speak soon - nite
23:35 < MikeSeth_> nite nite
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--- Day changed Mon Mar 03 2008
00:00 < impl> oh hai Wombert 
00:00 < Wombert> re
00:00 < Wombert> hai impl
00:00 < Wombert> hi miek
00:00  * Wombert pokes MikeSeth_ 
00:00 < Wombert> home safely?
00:00 < impl> How was it?
00:01 < Wombert> like pure win, freshly destilled
00:01 < Wombert> :)
00:01 < impl> :D
00:01 < Wombert> converted some guys to the agavis
00:01 < Wombert> hotel = uber win
00:01 < impl> awesome
00:01 < Wombert> london = uber win, of course
00:01 < Wombert> (you need to go there)
00:01 < Wombert> gonna collaborate with the seagull guys a little
00:01 < Wombert> just to share experiences etc
00:02 < Wombert> not on code I guess
00:02 < Wombert> met E_mE[Stilgar] who showed us around some nice places I didn't know yet
00:02 < impl> Cool :o
00:02 < Wombert> like borough market, where I bought the hottest chilis in the world <:
00:02 < impl> Guatemalan insanity peppers?
00:02 < Wombert> no, hotter
00:03 < Wombert> theres this scala
00:03 < impl> Did you eat them raw? :D
00:03 < Wombert> err scale
00:04 < Wombert> scoville
00:05 < Wombert> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scoville_scale
00:05 < Wombert> its some naga flavor
00:05 < Wombert> E_mE[Stilgar] will remember
00:06 < Wombert> (and I bought indian chili pepper and cayenne pepper from... somewhere in africa)
00:08 -!- IcyT is now known as icyt
00:11 < Wombert> oh and we converted pookey from symfony to agavi <:
00:11 < pookey> pfft :P
00:13 < trophaeum> Wombert, over the next month or 2 i should be building a nice high profile high traffic agavi site for the world to see :)
00:13 < trophaeum> finally found a nice project to do with it
00:13 < Wombert> ace
00:13 < Wombert> why does my inboxes haz 1155 emails
00:14 < trophaeum> bah, im ignoring 1 of my inbox's, i have 1 with 25k emails
00:14 < trophaeum> i dont wanna know
00:14 < trophaeum> sad part is none are spam
00:15 < Wombert> Mail is downloading them in chunks of 256
00:15 < Wombert> ..
00:15 < Wombert> fail
00:16 < trophaeum> thunderbird ftw
00:24  * pookey agrees
00:24 < pookey> but only because all mail clients suck, and thunderbirdr seems to suck just slightly less
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00:47 < impl> Wombert: I added another thing to the GSoC ideas list
00:56 < Wombert> impl: acde
00:56 < Wombert> impl: will do the application stuff this week
00:56 < impl> cool beans
01:38 < Wombert> guise
01:38 < Wombert> gotta go zZzZ
01:39 < impl> g'night
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07:18 < v-dogg> huomenta
07:24 < Arme[N]> huomenta
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07:42 < _cheerios> huomenta
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08:15 < E_mE[Stilgar]> huomenta!
08:19 < marklar|omni> hai~
08:27 < _cheerios> easiest way to format a timestamp in javascript to a formatted date?
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08:35 < marklar|omni> js has date.parse?
08:35 < marklar|omni> +does -has+have
08:35 < marklar|omni> (too early)
08:35 < _cheerios> ah, var d = new Date(); d.setTime(timestamp*1000);
08:35 < marklar|omni> nice
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08:45 < Rendez> .
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09:00 < RossC0> Huomenta!
09:03 < marklar|omni> hi
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09:10 < E_mE> huomenta!
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09:14 < _cheerios> aww, i cant remember how to print out stuff via JS so i can add <b/> html tags that get displayed proper, instead of just printed
09:14 < E_mE> damn it my machine at work keeps making a terrible noise from the GPU fan :/
09:15 < _cheerios> seems you need headphones :)
09:16 < E_mE> yeah, let the rest of the office suffer it haha!
09:17 < E_mE> give the machine little bit of a kick seems to help ;)
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09:24 < MikeSeth> weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
09:29 < _cheerios> wb MikeSeth :)
09:31 < MikeSeth> sup guise
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09:45 < marklar|omni> hai maik
09:45 < marklar|omni> someone tried to recruit me to some web startup via facebook
09:49 < E_mE> marklar|omni: did they just randomly message you?
09:49 < marklar|omni> nope
09:49 < marklar|omni> he was like
09:49 < marklar|omni> "i read your blog and it sounds like you <3 code"
09:50 < E_mE> hehe, what you gonna do? go for it?
09:52 < MikeSeth> marklar|omni: lol jews
09:52 < marklar|omni> heh
09:52 < MikeSeth> marklar|omni: i havent told you yet
09:52 < marklar|omni> dunno, I'll talk to him
09:52 < marklar|omni> what
09:52 < MikeSeth> marklar|omni: I crashed the con
09:52 < marklar|omni> ?
09:53 < marklar|omni> haha
09:53 < marklar|omni> why
09:53 < E_mE> an amazing moment ;)
09:53 < MikeSeth> marklar|omni: symfony, codeigniter and someone else made a presentation of their framework
09:53 < MikeSeth> there was a QA session
09:53 < MikeSeth> so i took the mic and I was like
09:53 < MikeSeth> "I'm sorry to say that but your frameworks are not MVC, in all 3 presentations I've seen basic mistakes in the example code, what you people doing is false advertising and is criminal"
09:54 < MikeSeth> I got applause
09:54 < marklar|omni> hahahaha
09:54 < marklar|omni> NICE
09:54 < _cheerios> lol
09:54 < MikeSeth> yeah pwnd
09:55 < _cheerios> did they stutter? ;)
09:55 < _cheerios> or was that the final thing you said, being escorted out
09:55 < MikeSeth> they did ;>
09:56 < marklar|omni> hahaha
09:56 < marklar|omni> you're marked now
09:56 < marklar|omni> they'll hunt you down
09:56 < v-dogg> haha
09:56 < E_mE> i thought not mentioning the name of the framework was an amazingly good idea MikeSeth, attracted only hte attensions of people who wanted to know and who cared ;)
09:56 < E_mE> very wise :D
09:57 < MikeSeth> we shall subvert the seagull guy
09:57 < MikeSeth> if we can do him we can do anyone
10:01 < E_mE> i left my js running that checks for faxes using setTimeout() and clearTimeout() for the whole weekend running to see how much memory leakage would occur. started off about 40MB (firefox) and got back today and it was over 700MB ram! hmpf!
10:01 < E_mE> it was the only page running too
10:01 < E_mE> performed about 20,000 requests to the server in 3 days
10:01 < MikeSeth> E_mE: do a page refresh once in a while
10:02 < E_mE> mmm, i shall see if there is JS to see if the user is idle for longer then 10minutes or so then do page refresh
10:02 < E_mE> dont want the page to refresh randomly when the user is inputting data
10:04 < RossC0> hey MikeSeth - good meeting you on Friday!
10:05 < RossC0> you survived the tequlia then :D
10:05  * RossC0 very glad he missed out on them!
10:06 < E_mE> the guy tried to get me a tequila... i refused, would of been fubar
10:09 < MikeSeth> RossC0: I actually handled it better than I thought.. everyone else got fucking drunk ;>
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10:15 < MikeSeth> oh hay
10:15 < MikeSeth> welcome to the conspiracy vlt
10:15 < MikeSeth> you wanted the 'correct' way right? ;>
10:17 < vlt> MikeSeth: Yes, enlighten me, please ;)
10:17 < MikeSeth> well first see http://ohloh.net/projects/5907 for an overview
10:22 < MikeSeth> vlt: we're about the only correct implementation of MVC
10:22 < MikeSeth> http://blog.mikeseth.com/index.php?/archives/4-ActiveRecord-sucks,-but-Kore-Nordmann-is-wrong.html
10:22 < _cheerios> RossC0, how was the meet? Are these guys as crazy irl, as here on #agavi?
10:23 < MikeSeth> yes
10:23 < MikeSeth> we are
10:23 < MikeSeth> ;>
10:23 < MikeSeth> Ross and David kept asking me to remove my military gloves
10:23 < MikeSeth> they dont like me looking like a hitman
10:23 < MikeSeth> ;>
10:23 < E_mE> along with your tenchcoat or what ever it is
10:24 < MikeSeth> ;>
10:24 < MikeSeth> next time I'll come in my usual half-gloves
10:24 < _cheerios> where are ze pics?
10:25 < E_mE> dont think there are any.. besides perhapse some from the coference organisers or so
10:26 < MikeSeth> well David made a pic of an anon sticker on the Blackfriars tunnel
10:27 < marklar|omni> btw did you speak to joe before he left
10:28 < RossC0> _cheerios: it was a real laugh and yes they are all insane geniuses !
10:29 < MikeSeth> marklar|omni: no. Anything I need to know?
10:29 < E_mE> RossC0: pm
10:29 < RossC0> eh?
10:30 < RossC0> I replied - you get that?
10:30 < E_mE> nope :(
10:30 < E_mE> you signed in?
10:30 < RossC0> should be
10:30 < RossC0> 2 tics
10:30 < E_mE> damn the irc!
10:31 < RossC0> lol
10:31 < RossC0> I wasn't signed in!!
11:11 < marklar|omni> MikeSeth: nah not really
11:12 < MikeSeth> marklar|omni: oic
11:18 < E_mE> http://www.flickr.com/photos/tags/phplondon08/
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11:20 < E_mE> hay hay Wombert :)
11:20 < E_mE> was good to meet you :)
11:22 < _cheerios> why are some men wearing phpwomen tshirts
11:24 < Wombert> that was creepy
11:24 < Wombert> and good to meet you, E_mE!
11:25 < E_mE> i found a picture taht im in hehe
11:25 < RossC0> hey Wombert!
11:27 < Rendez> who is whom in the pictures?
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11:33 < Wombert_> reading through the logs
11:34 < Wombert_> I must concur that RossC0 can be glad to have missed the tequilas
11:37  * RossC0 found saturday hard work
11:37 < RossC0> you make it to the Tate Wombert_ ?
11:37 < Wombert_> you bet
11:37 < Wombert_> man my feet hurt now from all the walking but
11:37 < Wombert_> I enjoyed it tons
11:38 < MikeSeth> same here :>
11:38 < Wombert_> did some shopping yesterday and then tate modern
11:38 < MikeSeth> Wombert_: fuckers delayed my plane for 2 hours
11:38 < MikeSeth> :<
11:38 < E_mE> one of my shoes have a hole in them now
11:38 < Wombert_> mine was delayed ~1hr
11:38 < RossC0> cool - it really is good
11:38 < E_mE> feet are getting nicely wet
11:39 < E_mE> my journey was delayed by 2 hours, because they decided to stop about about 1-2 hours in and sat there for 55mins doing bugger all.. didnt even move a meter! >:|
11:40 < Wombert_> at least we're all home safe
11:40 < E_mE> have a chilli =P
11:40 < Wombert_> did you see the cargo train where the containers were blown meters away in a storm
11:40 < Wombert_> somewhere in england
11:41 < Wombert_> that storm this weekend man
11:41 < Wombert_> sick
11:41 < E_mE> that was up north i think, i was fairly worried when my brother GF mentioned that lorrys etc where on some lines
11:41 < Wombert_> 13 people died
11:41 < Wombert_> !
11:41 < Wombert_> http://blog.bitxtender.com/post/27789153
11:41 < Wombert_> check that out
11:41 < E_mE> was that the A380 trying to land?
11:41 < E_mE> didnt even notice any storms hehe
11:42 < E_mE> A320 sorry hehe
11:42 < Wombert_> yea
11:43 < _cheerios> nice piloting there
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11:56 < E_mE> fecking hell its snowing outsides?
11:57 < E_mE> strange! ah its stopping again :/
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12:23 < MikeSeth> E_mE: tell Hamerr about the treatment we give you :>
12:24 < Hamerr> yeah .. tell me :)
12:25 < E_mE> very supportive :) long as you are willing to learn and take on information its a painless treatment :) hehe
12:26 < E_mE> as you proberbly know the documentation isn't silver yet, but we are all here to help :) I managed to learn agavi and its my first framework i used :) 
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12:28 < E_mE> but most important of all, i think its made me a better programmer as it forced me into good programming practices due to the framework being well layed out and structured ... hope that help?
12:29 < MikeSeth> because if you write broken code we beat you up
12:31 < RossC0> man thats one scary video
12:31 < Hamerr> :)
12:32 < Hamerr> E_mE
12:32 < MikeSeth> RossC0: which video?
12:32 < MikeSeth> RossC0: the puppy one?
12:33 < E_mE> Hamerr: you used any frameworks before?
12:33 < Hamerr> did you have any expiriance before using it ?
12:34 < Hamerr> E_mE i never used other software than my own
12:34 < Hamerr> and i`m new to 00 at all 
12:35 < E_mE> ive only been doing PHP for 2 years or so, programming since 1998. Before using agavi i actually wrote my own flow control for the first intranet at work. but i recently rewrote the intranet in agavi and its so much better
12:35 < E_mE> without the framework i was hacking away to get things working well.. not pretty
12:36 < Hamerr> I`m doing PHP from November last year .. thats 4 months 
12:36 < E_mE> when a person wanted a report it would take ages, but with agavi i can write a nice report in one morning because all the resources i need are there for me already :D
12:36 < E_mE> well, have you written anything like a site or so?
12:36 < Hamerr> yep .. thats my job 
12:36 < E_mE> embracing any OOP?
12:37 < Hamerr> in OOP nothing ready 
12:37 < Hamerr> everthing i wrote is procedurial 
12:37 < E_mE> how do write sites?
12:37 < E_mE> use any frameworks or all your own start to finish?
12:38 < Hamerr> the second one :>
12:38 < Hamerr> from <?php to ?>
12:38 < E_mE> heheh
12:39 < Hamerr> thats what it said to MikeSeth that i just miss the big picture of OO 
12:39 < E_mE> well i recommend you read the following: http://www.amazon.co.uk/PHP-5-Objects-Patterns-Practice/dp/1590593804/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1204547933&sr=8-1
12:39 < E_mE> do you understand the basics of OOP? such as inheritance?
12:39 < Hamerr> i have the book on my drive.Actualy i have a lot of books .. but putting it together is the hard 
12:39 < Hamerr> yep the manual is ok 
12:40 < E_mE> well, that book starts with the basics of why to use OOP
12:40 < E_mE> then moves onto covering some of the more complex topics
12:40 < E_mE> then move into patterns and why and how to use them
12:41 < E_mE> it wont teach you basics such as what functions mean etc
12:41 < E_mE> it assumes you know how to find that sort of information out
12:42 < E_mE> read the book ;) hoho
12:42 < E_mE> sorry i missed that you had it
12:42 < Hamerr> ok man.Agavi has many files implementing something extending other .. what is the law ? what drives them to work together 
12:42 < E_mE> well as someone once told me, "it took me about 2 years before i fully understand the princibles of OOP", i still learning :)
12:43 < E_mE> well its mainly the configurations that bring them all together
12:43 < E_mE> the autoloading
12:43 < E_mE> but the entry point to the application is in pub/index.php
12:44 < E_mE> which bootstraps and then sends a dispatch() message
12:44 < E_mE> you might want to look at some terminology as well, for example bootstrapping
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12:44 < E_mE> and read up about the factory pattern, which is covered quite clearly in PHP5 objects, patterns and practice
12:45 < Hamerr> a good book for MVC ?
12:46 < E_mE> well, it doesn;t actually cover MVC, but agavi uses a few patterns described in the book
12:46 < Hamerr> thank you
12:46 < E_mE> for a understanding of MVC, the interweb is a good source, here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model-view-controller
12:47 < Hamerr> i need to get over the "i`ll write it myself" part ...
12:48 < E_mE> i completely understand, trying to learn anything in programming is like trying to draw a very good picture on a plain peice of paper in a way
12:49 < E_mE> you'd rather use a stencil then have special tools to use do it. but the special tools will allow far more dyversity in your coding
12:49 < E_mE> not you personally, just a generalisation
12:49 < E_mE> have you downloaded agavi yet?
12:50 < Hamerr> i did last week
12:50 < E_mE> you get a basic system work?
12:50 < E_mE> to work*
12:50 < Hamerr> never tested it 
12:51 < Hamerr> the goal is :
12:53 < Hamerr> Cpanel/WHM related website with Extended billing section and 5 levels of administration,Enom services etc domain related stuff.thus it have to be secure as FortNox 
12:53 < Hamerr> thats it 
12:54 < Hamerr> and with all the above thing it has to be fast,simple and easy to extend
12:54 < E_mE> well, long as the rules of agavi are followed it should be secure
12:54 < E_mE> and easy to extend
12:54 < E_mE> you will be able to do the 5 levels of administration too with RBAC
12:55 < E_mE> what you should do first though is setup a test project
12:56 < E_mE> just to play and find what to focus on :)
12:56 < Hamerr> if i want to remove somenthing ? 
12:56 < Hamerr> :>
12:56 < E_mE> you can disable modules
12:57 < Hamerr> what comes after bootstraping ?
12:57 < E_mE> and moving routing from the user to the action
12:57 < E_mE> dispatch()
12:58 < E_mE> but generally you should not need to think about the index.php, only when moving the application into a live enviroment or changing its context. but dont worry about that for the moment
12:58 < E_mE> you use SVN Hamerr?
12:58 < Hamerr> never 
12:59 < E_mE> you ever used any software version control?
12:59 < Hamerr> no never 
13:00 < E_mE> well, if your creating projects that you wish to be extend or remove features etc you REALLY must consider it
13:00 < E_mE> check out SVN or GIT
13:00 < E_mE> also know as subversion, svn that is
13:01 < Hamerr> i had it on my computer but never used one 
13:02 < E_mE> this will help you: http://svnbook.red-bean.com/
13:03 < Hamerr> ok i`ll check out the books you gave me 
13:03 < E_mE> Hamerr: have you actually installed agavi yet? or just got it in zip form?
13:03 < Hamerr> whould i read "The Gang of Four" ?
13:04 < E_mE> id start with PHP5 objects, patterns & Practice as he has extracted the relavent parts of the GoF book and explained it more clearly
13:04 < Hamerr> E_mE actualy i explored the archive and without trying to understand it i took some code rewrite and cat put together 
13:04 < E_mE> and shows snippets of code in PHP that reflect the patterns
13:04 < Hamerr> cant*
13:05 < E_mE> sorry?
13:05 < Hamerr> "E_mE actualy i explored the archive and without trying to understand it i took some code rewrite and cant put together"
13:06 < E_mE> you need to extrac the archive and install it, then you need to execute a command which will create your first project
13:06 < E_mE> then you modify the project code rather then the library it self
13:06 < Hamerr> i got the idea :>
13:06 < E_mE> library (agavi core) should NEVER be touched unless you know what your doing
13:06 < Hamerr> lets do some reading 
13:06 < v-dogg> http://phpseriously.com/archives/8-Getting-Started-with-Agavi-and-Propel-Part-1
13:06 < Hamerr> thank you for your time 
13:07 < E_mE> http://www.agavi.org/docs/latest/manuals/manual/ch02s02.html#c1-installation-by_hand
13:07 < E_mE> np :)
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13:17 < RossC0> back - MikeSeth this video: http://blog.bitxtender.com/post/27789153
13:24 -!- Arme[N] is now known as Arme[0]
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13:35 < MikeSeth> wow that pilot is one bad ass mofo
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13:47 < _cheerios> j #muxlim
13:47 < _cheerios> re: huomenta
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14:13 < Hamerr> E_mE, i have  a lot to learn from php object patterns practice
14:14 < E_mE> yep, i personally havent completely finished the book, but it tought me most of what i know about OOP :)
14:15 < Hamerr> man .. i just find out that a inherited class gets even the parent constructor ..
14:16 < E_mE> well, if you dont declare a new __Construct() your right, but if you do declare one then you need to call it your self with parent::__construct();
14:16 < E_mE> but you'll get to that :D
14:17 < Hamerr> that i know but it seems that i miss some basic things 
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14:20 < E_mE> you know about static classes?
14:21 < Hamerr> what about them ?
14:22 < E_mE> just wondering if you have encountered them :)
14:24 < Hamerr> i did but never used them 
14:25 < Hamerr> i`ve only called a method staticly
14:25 < E_mE> when you learn about the singleton pattern (which agavi and lots of other systems use), you will see the beauty of static functions :D
14:25 < E_mE> yes i ment a method sorry hehe.. i was being little dim for a moment :)
14:26 < Hamerr> i know the singleton 
14:26 < Hamerr> but your question was about static classes 
14:26 < E_mE> yes i was being dim :)
14:27 < E_mE> i ment methods
14:27 < E_mE> dim = stupid hehe
14:27 < Hamerr> please excuse me if i missspel some words 
14:28 < Hamerr> my english is ... no comment 
14:33 < Macen> www.dictionary.com 
14:33 < E_mE> Hamerr: im the same with my spelling :) no worries
14:34 < E_mE> Macen: google ;) 
14:35 < Hamerr> :)
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14:50 < MrJeep> good morning
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15:07 < MikeSeth> omg wtf
15:07 < MikeSeth> http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/funny-pictures-cats-umbrella-rain-flood.jpg
15:08 < pookey> I like that one :)
15:08 < MikeSeth> oh haha
15:08 < MikeSeth> look who's here
15:08 < MikeSeth> you decided to join the conspiracy?
15:08 < pookey> I'm sad enough to subscribe to the RSS feed ofr that site ;)
15:08 < pookey> MikeSeth: no, I'm only here to heckle people and call them criminal!
15:08 < pookey> ;)
15:09 < pookey> nah, as soon as I get some spare time, I'm going to have a look at it all
15:09 < MikeSeth> false advertising is criminal, sir ;>
15:09 < RossC0> and it was the framework not *you*
15:09 < pookey> oh, hi RossC0 :)
15:09 < MrJeep> MikeSeth: how was PHP conf ?
15:10 < MikeSeth> MrJeep: I owned it ;>
15:10 < pookey> haahaa :P
15:10 < MikeSeth> ask pookey
15:10 < pookey> hey, you got called 'crazy guy' on my blog :P
15:11 < E_mE> ohh there about to tell everyone that im leaving ;) 
15:11 < E_mE> there not going to hire a new ICT Tech
15:11 < E_mE> going to give ict tasks to accounts assistant hehe
15:11 < E_mE> good luck i say! :/
15:11 < MikeSeth> pookey: you're gonna earn an angry rebuttal, caveat emptor ;>
15:11 < pookey> http://pookey.co.uk/blog/archives/42-phplondon08-My-symfony-talk.html
15:11 < MrJeep> E_me: That's what I've been forced to do last friday
15:12 < E_mE> the accounts assistant knows feck all about computing, well besides using the interweb hehe but i dont care anymore
15:12 < E_mE> MikeSeth: hehe great cats :D
15:13 < pookey> I orderd my train ticket to the phplondon thing in a lolcat stype accidently
15:13 < pookey> 'oh and... young persons railcard,  I have one'
15:13 < pookey> spent to long on that bloody site :)
15:13 < MikeSeth> oh
15:14 < MikeSeth> I has an email
15:14 < MikeSeth> no angry rebuttals
15:14 < MikeSeth> I would mail the guy directly ;>
15:17 < E_mE> MikeSeth: you will now be know as "The Crazy Guy" :D yay
15:17 < E_mE> hehe
15:17  * pookey grins
15:17 < pookey> I thoguth the whole thing was quite amusing - it certainly added some colour to the talk :)
15:18 < E_mE> pookey: did you hear MikeSeth comments in the talk by Stefan esser? 
15:18 < pookey> hmm.. which one? I was with him with the Binary Analysis one... I don't remember anything there
15:19 < E_mE> yes the binary analysis
15:20 < E_mE> about sacking people for using eval() ;)
15:20 < pookey> ohhh.... that was him!
15:20 < pookey> I didn't turn round to look
15:20 < E_mE> hehe yes
15:21 < pookey> well, it's good to have some character I guess ;)
15:22 < Macen> pookey: i'd be interested to hear your audio, the slides alone don't tell much of a story
15:22 < pookey> Macen: I don't think the audio does either ;)
15:22 < Macen> pookey: i live in hope :p
15:23 < Macen> pookey: big thing to leave out, the admin generator?
15:23 < pookey> Macen: it sure if.. but I only had 20 minutes
15:23 < MikeSeth> well well well
15:23 < pookey> I could have filled a couple of hours easily
15:23 < MikeSeth> it appears jquery fucks up IE dom and leaks memory
15:23 < MikeSeth> aint that nice
15:23 < MikeSeth> thank god they made drip.exe
15:23 < Macen> MikeSeth: i've never liked jquery
15:24 < Macen> pookey: i would of been interested to hear the pro's and con's of using such a thing
15:24 < Macen> pookey: how restrictive it is, and so on
15:24 < Macen> pookey: it's certainly innovative. i like innovative
15:24 < pookey> Macen: it's a shame really... I kinda touched on the 'you just do this, and you have a fully working CRUD type thing with filtering, paging, per-field security configuration' etc.. but.... I was far too fast on my presentation, nervious as it was my first time talking, and just didn't have enough time
15:25 < Macen> pookey: nerves are what make a good presentation as long as they don't overcome you
15:25 < pookey> Macen: the admin generator is absotlyly fantastic for backend stuff, but there gets to be a poitn where you're overriding so much, at some point you might as well just have donei t yourself
15:26 < Macen> pookey: i did wonder, it seemed to me you end up editing the cache all the time
15:26 < pookey> nah, you shoudl neve rdo that... they wil ljust get killed next time theey are edited
15:26 < Macen> exactly
15:26 < pookey> sometimes you want to inspect the cache, sso you cna observe how it works, so that you can correctly modify the parent actions class
15:26 < pookey> Macen: where in the UK are you?
15:26 < Macen> when the guy said 'if you want to change it yourself edit the cache' i was turned right off
15:27 < Macen> pookey: Clitheroe, Lancashire
15:27 < pookey> Macen: who said that?
15:27 < Macen> dare i say the guy with the absolutely hilarious accent on your screencasts?
15:28 < pookey> hmm.. Fabien maybe... I've not watched them
15:29 < pookey> Macen: when I joined symfony, the docs were nothign like they are now... and there wnas't so much in the way of screencasts.. and when they finally did come out, I didn't feel the need to read them... so I've notmuch idea on the docs
15:31 < Hamerr> do i have to declare a method as static "public static function smth()" or i can skip the "static" word and have the same result ?
15:31 < Macen> pookey: they were helpful on the whole
15:33 < Macen> pookey: my conclusion was that for a first generation system of this kind it looked very interesting
15:35 < pookey> Macen: version 2 is going to change quite a few things around apparently
15:35 -!- nfq [n=nfq@84-73-210-137.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #agavi
15:36 -!- _cheerios [i=jussiava@ip-87-108-51-162.customer.academica.fi] has quit ["moo"]
15:41 < v-dogg> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uwOL4rB-go :D
15:41 < v-dogg> brilliant 
15:43 -!- Wombert [n=Wombert@BAEcb71.bae.pppool.de] has joined #agavi
15:45 < Wombert> hai2u
15:45 < Wombert> man its full in here
15:46 < MrJeep> Wombert: how are you ?
15:52 < Wombert> hi
15:57 < MrJeep> so, php conf was nice ?
15:57 < Wombert> pure win
15:57 < MrJeep> nice, what did they talk about ?
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16:05 < RossC0> MrJeep: http://www.phpconference.co.uk/schedule/ ;)
16:07 < Wombert> all those guys
16:07 < Wombert> from the conf?
16:08 < E_mE> which guys?
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16:11 < RossC0> shoan: you get the cli sorted?
16:11 < shoan> RossC0: no, I couldn't get it going in time and had to replicate code :(
16:12 -!- shoan [n=shoan@122.166.1.168] has quit [Client Quit]
16:29 < Wombert> MikeSeth: 
16:29 < Wombert> ping
16:29 < Wombert> http://www.phpguru.org/article.php/218
16:32 < RossC0> lol
16:32 < RossC0> that guy
16:33 < RossC0> he loves procedural and hates OOP
16:35 -!- _cheerios [n=jacklo@hkibrasgw1-feaedd00-249.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #agavi
16:36 < pookey> projects such as PHPBB3, OsCommerce, WordPress would suddenly become much harder to install and hack around in if they used ZF.
16:36 < pookey> wow, hes a clever guy
16:36 -!- Rendez [n=Rendez@84.77.245.235] has quit []
16:38 < E_mE> someone called Ivon in the comments, i wonder if thats the same ivo who spoke at phpconf? his statement appears to be quite similar to mikes hehe
16:39 < E_mE> proberbly just coinsandance (excuse the spelling)
16:39 < Macen> phpguru's news tree is seriously ftw
16:40 < Macen> i love it
16:40  * RossC0 is ranting
16:40  * RossC0 cutting back comments
16:41 < _cheerios> heh @ "crazy guy"
16:41 < pookey> :)
16:42 < RossC0> I posted
16:48 < E_mE> im about to post as well :D
16:50 < E_mE> that comment by ivo is incorrect, he saying that all the business logic should exist in the model, it shouldn't! the model should merely be a portal/interface between the app and the business logic
16:51 < Wombert> no
16:52 < E_mE> ?
16:53 < RossC0> E_mE he's correcty
16:53 < RossC0> *correct
16:53 < E_mE> but if he puts all his business logic in the model, the model ideally wont be portable between frameworks or so
16:53 < Wombert> yeah. your business logic is in the models. you simply use them in the controllers to do what you want, in the combination you want. the necessary processing details are in the model
16:53 < E_mE> and models can use links to the framework
16:53 < Wombert> the model then uses a DAL (like an ORM) etc
16:54 < Wombert> ah that is what you mean
16:54 < Wombert> yeah if you look at it that way, I guess you could argue that _agavi_ models should wrap models that work standalone
16:54 < Wombert> but then, those models cannot use the frameworks data access facilities etc,  so...
16:54 < E_mE> where as if you have app <--> Model <--> ResSys & ORM, you can remove the ressys and orm without affecting the model
16:54 < E_mE> ah.. one sec let me read what you done
16:55 < E_mE> Wombert: true, but in your model you pass the DB data to the ResSys, so your database and ressys and model are indepedant from each other?
16:56 < E_mE> not in "Yours" but, you know what i mean :D
16:56 < E_mE> so im more aless saying that the model plugs all the 3 things together
16:57 < E_mE> maybe im approaching this with too much seperation :)
16:57 < Wombert> mh
16:57 < Wombert> need to go shopping
16:57 < Wombert> bbl
16:58 < E_mE> bye.. im off home anyhow
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17:09 -!- afstanton [n=afstanto@adsl-68-253-39-222.dsl.ipltin.ameritech.net] has joined #agavi
17:10 < afstanton> Hi - is there a way to trim input when using xml validators?
17:16 < afstanton> also, in the chain of events for an action, is there a function that will be called after initialize but before validate?  I want to store some data to be accessible whether or not validation succeeds - I could put it in the validation step, but the feels wrong to me.
17:17 < RossC0> afstanton: you could use handleError method for when the validation fails
17:18 < afstanton> RossCO:  for the trim, or data storage?
17:20 < RossC0> for handling when validation fails
17:21 -!- icyt is now known as IcyT
17:23 < afstanton> RossC0:  I'm not understanding you.  Yes, I can use handleError for failure, but is that in response to trimming data with an xml validator, or in response to storing data prior to validation?
17:23 < RossC0> ok stop
17:23 < RossC0> what are you trying to do?
17:24 -!- trophaeum [i=lsuvgv@ppp121-45-208-192.lns2.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #agavi
17:25 < RossC0> you could write your own validator to do such a thing
17:26 < afstanton> two things:  one, trim input data prior to validation, as leading/trailing spaces are irrelevant to actual length of the input...and i was hoping xml validators could do that, as they seem simpler, but yes, i can write my own
17:26 < RossC0> but saving data that fails validation - sounds seriously flawed - it just does - so what / why do you need to save it?
17:26 < afstanton> and two, whether validation succeeds or fails, i want the original data accessible for display to the user without using the dataHolder, preferably by setting attributes i can access with $template
17:27 < RossC0> Ah ok - you use FPF?
17:27 < afstanton> no
17:27 < RossC0> ah right
17:27 < RossC0> ok thats what that is for
17:27 < afstanton> our forms in our legacy system won't pass it
17:28 < RossC0> ah problems with the markup 
17:28 < afstanton> yes
17:28 < afstanton> and i just want to pass data around
17:28 < RossC0> well its in the $rd
17:28 < afstanton> i know
17:28 < afstanton> and i want to not use that
17:29 < RossC0> ah ok - why?
17:29 < afstanton> $template touches attributes, not $rd
17:29 < afstanton> attributes seemed like the right way to pass data
17:32 < afstanton> i'm completely new to this framework
17:37 < RossC0> ah ok - right
17:38 < RossC0> no problems you still can have access to them in the template
17:38 < RossC0> just pass them from the views
17:38 < RossC0> *however* I suggest updating the template to be xhtml valid and then you can get FPF to do it for you automatically
17:38 < RossC0> they can even look the same
17:40 < afstanton> i'm sure that it can, but right now i don't have that option
17:40 < afstanton> the views sounds like it would be duplicating code
17:40 < trophaeum> anyone know if you can limit the amount of data to be requested with curl? i only want the first few k of a html doc not the whole thing :(
17:41 < RossC0> afstanton: you should go through an error view on failed validation - its just a wise move
17:41 < RossC0> right home time!
17:41  * RossC0 nudges Wombert v-dogg MikeSeth please help afstanton if you can :D
17:41 < RossC0> good luck afstanton!
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17:42 < afstanton> of course - it will still go through the error view, i just want the original data to show the user just how they messed up (yes, it will be html escaped)
17:42 < afstanton> thanks
17:49 < afstanton> ...afk...
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17:59 < Wombert> hi afstanton 
18:01 < marklar|omni> hai
18:02 < Wombert> poke me when you're back so I can give you a hand
18:02 < Wombert> hai marklar|omni 
18:02 < marklar|omni> hai
18:02 < marklar|omni> sup
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18:18 < MikeSeth> ok who wants a copy of my crazy guy response? raise hands
18:19 < _cheerios> oh yes
18:20 < _cheerios> show me crazy, MikeSeth 
18:20 < MikeSeth> email plox ;>
18:24 -!- MrJeep [n=jpdery@modemcable051.81-37-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit []
18:24 < _cheerios> who where ?
18:25 -!- MrJeep [n=jpdery@modemcable051.81-37-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #agavi
18:28 < Wombert> wat
18:28 < Wombert> shoot it ovah
18:28 < Wombert> miek you got the anon sticker pix?
18:31 < MikeSeth> ya
18:31 < MikeSeth> _cheerios: gimme your email
18:39 -!- Macen [n=leopard@host86-138-73-224.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has quit []
18:46 < MikeSeth> pookey: I'm sending you a copy as well
18:46 < MikeSeth> afstanton: did you need help?
18:46 < pookey> hmm....
18:46 < pookey> pookey@pookey.co.uk
18:46 < pookey> I dunno what you're sending, but whatever :)
18:47 < _cheerios> wtf. did gmail just undergo an update or did my browser blow up.
18:49 < _cheerios> seems they've defauled me to some lesser html-view. :|
18:50 < _cheerios> "For a better Gmail experience, use a fully supported browser.   Learn more"
18:52 < MikeSeth> pookey: response to the guy who called me crazy
18:53 < MikeSeth> pookey: which I think you will find interesting
18:55 < marklar|omni> plz fwd too
18:59 < MikeSeth> done and done
18:59 < marklar|omni> kthx
18:59 < Wombert> MikeSeth: win
19:00 < MikeSeth> for great justice
19:02 < Wombert> MikeSeth: where is the article you're referring to anyways
19:11  * Wombert smacks MikeSeth 
19:11 < Wombert> ANSWER ME, SIR
19:13 -!- kaos|work_ [n=dominik@dialbs-088-079-085-107.static.arcor-ip.net] has quit []
19:20 < MikeSeth> which one
19:21 < MikeSeth> ah
19:21 < MikeSeth> no
19:22 < MikeSeth> it was just some short comment on pookey's blog ;>
19:22 < marklar|omni> hai
19:22 < v-dogg> woot woot woot! what's going on here? some good fails I've missed?
19:22 < MikeSeth> omnomnom
19:22 < _cheerios> MikeSeth, awww.. i thought there was a VIDEO of YOU at the conf doing your thing! *disappointed*
19:23 -!- Neubian [n=noway@66.193.168.130] has quit []
19:23 < MikeSeth> i dunno there were cameras
19:23 < Wombert> v-dogg: DUDE
19:23 < Wombert> and what you missed
19:23 < Wombert> !
19:23 < MikeSeth> mahahaha
19:24 < Wombert> anyways
19:24 < Wombert> cook for omnomnom win
19:26 -!- dsias_ [n=dsias@ip70-191-221-200.pn.at.cox.net] has joined #agavi
19:26 < MikeSeth> v-dogg: yeah I basically said on the conference during QA on the framework debate that all MVC frameworks are broken
19:26 -!- dsias [n=dsias@ip70-191-221-200.pn.at.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
19:26 < MikeSeth> by the way hello all new people!
19:26 < MikeSeth> I wonder where you come from :D
19:26 < v-dogg> MikeSeth: yeah, I heard about that. but what's this reply about?
19:28 < MikeSeth> well some responses were "you can also do MVC this way" and "you can call it MVC when you do it"
19:29 < MikeSeth> and some guy called me crazy on pookey's blog, so I sent him a more or less detailed explanation
19:29 < MikeSeth> well in the shape of a rant
19:29 < marklar|omni> hehe
19:29 < v-dogg> pookey's blog being phpguru.com?
19:30 < MikeSeth> no
19:30 < v-dogg> .org
19:30 < MikeSeth> phpguru is just some guy who has no clue
19:30 < MikeSeth> pookey.org.uk
19:30 < MikeSeth> s/org/co/
19:30 < v-dogg> (I was hoping it wasn't phpguru.org :)
19:31 < v-dogg> because I've read some stuff from phpguru
19:31 -!- JanK__ [n=JanK_@muedsl-82-207-245-027.citykom.de] has joined #agavi
19:37 < MikeSeth> oh hahahahahaha
19:37 < MikeSeth> there is drama over the internets
19:37 -!- dsias_ [n=dsias@ip70-191-221-200.pn.at.cox.net] has quit []
19:37 < MikeSeth> wikipedia founder gf dumped him over email and someone posted a copy
19:37 < MikeSeth> ah shit 
19:37 < MikeSeth> its a satire site I think?
19:38 < MikeSeth> fail internet is fair
19:38 < MikeSeth> bb /b/
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19:51 < MikeSeth> lol /b/
19:51 < MikeSeth> http://img.4chan.org/b/src/1204573249880.jpg
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20:10 -!- Mo [n=martinot@dialbs-088-079-085-107.static.arcor-ip.net] has quit []
20:10 < _cheerios> MikeSeth, you forgot to attach the video to the email http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=GI3j5ZRWFHw
20:11 < MikeSeth> mahaha
20:15 -!- codecop [n=codecop@78-61-197-230.ip.zebra.lt] has quit ["Leaving"]
20:15 < afstanton> Hi - where do I put a layout?  And how do I refer to it once it's created?
20:15 < afstanton> (and eventually I'll ask about slots, too...)
20:17 < MikeSeth> afstanton: a layout is a configuration item. It doesnt really exist in your code.
20:17 < MikeSeth> You ask the view to create a layout
20:17 < MikeSeth> layouts are defined in output_types.xml
20:18 < MikeSeth> layout is a list of layers, and your view will be working on specific layers
20:18 < afstanton> ok, so if i want to avoid duplicating headers and footers, how can i do that?
20:19 < MikeSeth> well the normal approarch would be to have a decorator template
20:19 < MikeSeth> it's the template that goes around any other content
20:19 < MikeSeth> of course it can be more complicated than that
20:19 < afstanton> and calls your other template?
20:19 < afstanton> well, includes
20:20 < MikeSeth> no
20:20 < MikeSeth> you dont include templates from each other
20:20 < MikeSeth> think of it like this
20:20 < MikeSeth> you have the top level template
20:20 -!- Strzalek [n=chatzill@dls177.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #agavi
20:20 < MikeSeth> it looks approximately like this
20:20 < Strzalek> Hi there
20:21 < MikeSeth> http://trac.agavi.org/browser/branches/0.11/samples/app/modules/Default/templates/Master.php
20:21 < MikeSeth> Strzalek: hello!
20:21 < Strzalek> Are there some of agavi developeres?
20:21 < Strzalek> I've few questions
20:21 < MikeSeth> afstanton: pay attention to line 162
20:21 < Strzalek> Hi pookey doctriner ;)
20:21 < MikeSeth> Strzalek: oh hello
20:21 < MikeSeth> yeah all devs hang out here
20:22 < Strzalek> Main question - what about agavi site and documentation :) 
20:22 < MikeSeth> Strzalek: we're lazy ;>
20:22 < Strzalek> Same as me
20:22 < afstanton> echo $inner
20:22 < Strzalek> ;]
20:22 < MikeSeth> Strzalek: seriously though we're making a documentation tool
20:22 < afstanton> i was about to ask about that
20:23 < Strzalek> MikeSeth: Hmm? Tool? How it will works :> ?
20:23 < afstanton> that;s where it refers to the other template, right?
20:24 < Strzalek> My questions is becouse of that I'm writting few articles about agavi (I'm lovin it!)
20:25 < Strzalek> Maybe 4-5. Sth linke Definitive Guide:)
20:26 < Strzalek> I'd also like to help you guys. Maybe in creating site? Some help ind docs :) ?
20:28 < MikeSeth> sorry
20:28 < MikeSeth> wifi problems ;>
20:28 < MikeSeth> Strzalek: its some sort of structureless knowledge base
20:29 < MikeSeth> afstanton: well think of it this way
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20:29 < MikeSeth> afstanton: your view writes output into layers
20:29 < MikeSeth> afstanton: so, your view, when executed, loads a layout
20:29 < MikeSeth> this sets up layers in the view
20:29 < Strzalek> MikeSeth: I have mastered agavi very good. But my big problem is English language. It's poor
20:29 < Strzalek> :P
20:29 < MikeSeth> Strzalek: speak more English then :P
20:30 < Strzalek> I'm trying ;)
20:30 < MikeSeth> afstanton: when your view loads the default layout, in which there's a layer for content, that content layer is what the view writes too
20:30 < MikeSeth> its contents become the value of $inner for the layer above it, which is the decorator
20:31 < MikeSeth> I should probably draw it in inkscape or something
20:32 < afstanton> i think I get it...but now..the "master.php" bit is specified in output-types?
20:32 < Strzalek> Btw - show you sth.
20:32 < Strzalek> http://pastebin.ca/903702
20:32 < Strzalek> Agavi + Doctrine
20:33 < Strzalek> That is what I love in Agavi and Doctrine
20:33 < MikeSeth> afstanton: yes. The simplest template combination is two layers: the master template (the decorator) and a content layer
20:34 -!- Fastly [n=fasfsa@81-86-33-27.dsl.pipex.com] has joined #agavi
20:34 < Strzalek> MikeSeth: So what about site? I'm determined to help you :)
20:34 < v-dogg> afstanton: http://www.emenetdev.co.uk/repos/trunk/app/config/output_types.xml
20:34 < MikeSeth> Strzalek: I dont know, I think it's on Wombert's todo list
20:34 < MikeSeth> v-dogg: obtw.. I forgot my commit creds.. need to bug E_mE bout it
20:35 < Strzalek> v-dogg: <parameter name="var_name">t</parameter>, you could extract values, and I'll be the simplest ;)
20:35 < afstanton> ah, thanks...i think i get it
20:35 < v-dogg> afstanton: you can see how there are two layout - the default (decorated) and a simple (for slots)
20:35 < afstanton> yup
20:36 < v-dogg> Strzalek: no, extracting is bad
20:36 < v-dogg> use $template (renamed or not)
20:36 < afstanton> so...if i want to refer to a slot, like menu, would i refer to it as $menu in the decorator?
20:36 < v-dogg> makes it easier to read the template - you'
20:36 < v-dogg> (err)
20:36 < MikeSeth> afstanton: no, $slots['menu']
20:36 < afstanton> ah, k
20:36 < Strzalek> Hmm
20:37 < v-dogg> *you'll see what came from outside and what didn't
20:37 < afstanton> $template for attributes, $slots for slots
20:37 < MikeSeth> Strzalek: were you the guy that drank tequila with me in London?
20:37 < v-dogg> yes
20:37 < MikeSeth> just in case ;>
20:37 < MikeSeth> afstanton: these are all determined by the layer configuration, you can control them through parameters to layers in output types configuration
20:37 < afstanton> i keep needing to go to London...
20:37 < Strzalek> Hahaha MikeSeth I'd like to. But for sure that not me
20:38 < Strzalek> I'm you guy from Poland ;]
20:38 < Strzalek> ;)
20:38 < afstanton> MikeSeth:  i think it will take some more experimenting on my part to get it right...
20:38 < Strzalek> *young
20:39 < MikeSeth> afstanton: look in the sample app
20:39 < afstanton> yup...trying to figure that out...
20:39 < Strzalek> I should visit this channel more often :>
20:39 < MikeSeth> afstanton: routing determines the output type; output type determines which execute() method in the view is executed, and which default layout is loaded by setupHtml()
20:40 < MikeSeth> afstanton: the layout, then, defines the layers (and templates) which the view renders on
20:40 < v-dogg> MikeSeth: setup_HTML_ :)
20:40 < v-dogg> I don't use it for other output types
20:40 < MikeSeth> the view prepares whatever data is neccessary for rendering 
20:40 < MikeSeth> v-dogg: well assuming that he's now working on HTML :>
20:41 < Strzalek> :)
20:41 < afstanton> righ, json is next on the to do list
20:41 < MikeSeth> v-dogg is entirely correct though, other output types (think JSON) do not require templates and the view renders the output directly
20:41 < MikeSeth> afstanton: very easy
20:41 < MikeSeth> :D
20:41 < Strzalek> vary
20:41 < Strzalek> :)
20:41 < Strzalek> very :)
20:42 < Strzalek> I was surprised that it is so simple, when doint it first time
20:42 < v-dogg> executeJson(AgaviRequestDataHolder $rd) { return json_encode($this->getAttribute('data')); }
20:42 < Strzalek> :)
20:42 < MikeSeth> function executeJson(AgaviRequestDataHolder $rd) { return json_encode(..wt
20:42 < v-dogg> like this?-)
20:42  * MikeSeth smacks v-dogg 
20:42 < MikeSeth> damn ;>
20:42 < Strzalek> :]
20:42 < afstanton> and if I need to render several attributes?
20:43 < Strzalek> Does   somebody have some CRUD tool?
20:43 < MikeSeth> Strzalek: I personally dont need one
20:43 < Strzalek> There is lack of tool like this.
20:44 < MikeSeth> afstanton: its the question of what you want to return as json object. usually it's an associative array
20:44 < MikeSeth> afstanton: I usually do something like this
20:44 < Strzalek> Some simple CRUD generator would be gut. For generating simple Add, Edit, Delete actions
20:44 < v-dogg> nah
20:44 < v-dogg> :)
20:45 < MikeSeth> afstanton: I make a single function that prepares data regardless of the output type, then call it in execute() method to get the data, then json_encode it as it is or according to any particular format
20:45 < Strzalek> Maybe I'll write some with Doctrine
20:45 < MikeSeth> Strzalek: because Agavi is unaware of the database, and is agnostic towards it, such thing can't be a part of Agavi
20:45 < Strzalek> v-dogg you're v-dogg from #doctrine ;> ?
20:45 < afstanton> creates an associative array...hm...
20:46 < Strzalek> MikeSeth: Yes! You're absolutle right. But it could be distributed as additional tool
20:46 < v-dogg> Strzalek: a generic tool always leaves you with something half-ready and by the time you've fixed it, you would have written it from the scratch 
20:46 < v-dogg> Strzalek: do you use the agavi cli helper with custom code templates?
20:46 < v-dogg> Strzalek: yes, I'm on #doctrine 
20:46 < Strzalek> No. Never used it
20:47  * v-dogg smacks Strzalek 
20:47 < Strzalek> v-dogg: probably I owe some beer for help with Doctrine ;)
20:47 < v-dogg> Strzalek: http://phpseriously.com/
20:47 < v-dogg> 'bout templates
20:48 < Strzalek> v-dogg: your blog?
20:48 < v-dogg> yup
20:48 < Strzalek> RSS added to reader. It looks interesting
20:49 < v-dogg> part 3 is not finished because serendipity is broken 
20:49 < v-dogg> and our agavi based blog is not ready :)
20:49 < Strzalek> For your information - strzalek.net/blog it's mine. In few days there will be a lot of new articles. But it's only in PL...
20:49 < v-dogg> but now: something totally different
20:50 < v-dogg> sofa + telly + some red wine ->
20:50 < Strzalek> v-dogg: you're agavi dev?
20:51 < Strzalek> Hah, btw. MikeSeth what you thing about add routing.xml to module config?
20:51 < Strzalek> Such like autoload.xml
20:51 < Strzalek> it could works
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20:54 < Strzalek> Hi Whisller !!
20:55 < Whisller> hi Strzalek
20:55 < Whisller> :P
20:55 < Strzalek> Whisller: heheh, dawno Cie stara dupo nie "widzialem"
20:55 < Strzalek> :P
20:56 < Whisller> hehe. I too :P What are you doing now?
20:56 < Strzalek> So, same as every day - school, computer, bed ;)
20:56 < Strzalek> Same shit, diffrent day as may friend used to say ;)
20:57 < Whisller> heh
20:57 < Whisller> I don't remember when I saw you last time at gg :P
20:57 < Strzalek> Whisller: I'm reading yours stupid status every day :D
20:58 < Whisller> Hehe which one?
20:58 < MikeSeth> Strzalek: no, that's not supposed to be done in routing
20:58 < MikeSeth> Strzalek: it's too high level a task
20:58 < Strzalek> Whisller: I've been away since 21:38.
20:58 < Whisller> this from miranda? ;)
20:58 < Strzalek> Ble, ble ble.
20:58 < Whisller> hehe
20:58 < MikeSeth> Strzalek: ahhh you mean per-module routing?
20:58 < Strzalek> Yes
20:58 < MikeSeth> I thought it existed already?
20:59 < Strzalek> Damm. Really :| ?
20:59 < MikeSeth> I never tried but I imagine with it you can easily turn modules into plugins
20:59 < Whisller> Strzalek: go to work :P You'll be not have time for reading my status ;p
20:59 < Strzalek> Hahaha nie cfaniakuj (I don't konw howe to write in ENG)
20:59 < Strzalek> :P
20:59 < MikeSeth> Strzalek: well, since all modules are supposed to belong to the same application, I prefer to put everything in main routing.xml... so I dont know for a fact if you can cut in routing from modules
21:00 < Strzalek> Whisller: in few days there'll be some new notes on my blog - about agavi :> Be aware
21:00 < Whisller> Strzalek: don't be sad but...I'm writing in symfony ;) It wasn't my idea :P
21:01 < Whisller> But I will be happy to read your articles
21:01 < Strzalek> Hehehe, why is that :) ?
21:01 < Whisller> At work we'
21:01 < Whisller> re using symfony
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21:01 < Strzalek> What I wrote this art, I also try with symfony. Why not - maybe it's better :P
21:01 < Whisller> Songoqu chose it :)
21:02 < Strzalek> Whisller: I thought so
21:02 < Whisller> No, it isn't
21:03 < Whisller> Symfony has a strange validators...they are not comfort in use, are "simple" and you can't do with them anything ;)
21:03 < Strzalek> MikeSeth: I imagine it, that you have module News. And you can put routing with routes like Add, Delete, Edit, ShowAll, and set parent route. And it'll be more flexible. You colud easily make sth linke "module installer" and sending News_module.zip to installer :)
21:04 < Whisller> Routing also is hmm .. ehh there isn't nothing special. One good thing is admin generator, for a basic bacend 
21:04 < Strzalek> Whisller: I heard that on a days there'll be new version of sf
21:04 < Whisller> And plugin for propel which is using i18n
21:04 < Strzalek> with better validating and sth more
21:04 < Strzalek> Whisller: use Doctrine :)
21:05 < Whisller> It's using active records as I know. So it isn't for me.
21:05 < Strzalek> Blah. Damm! My Engislih :( I have to start learn this language ;/
21:05 < Strzalek> Whisller: why?
21:06 < Strzalek> Whisller: hmm, Doctrine is more ORM than AR
21:06 < Strzalek> Whisller: Check this out: http://pastebin.ca/903702 Agavi + Doctrine :)
21:07 < Whisller> I don't like active records, and I think it isn't good idea. You are addicted by database structure. And some other ideas which in my opinion are strange
21:08 < Whisller> But it is only my opinion
21:08 < impl> 'fternoon
21:08 < Strzalek> Of course. Some day I'll knock knock to you on gg, and youle figure it out that doctrine is cool ;)
21:08 < Whisller> hehe never :P
21:09 < Strzalek> ;)
21:09 < Strzalek> We'll see ;)
21:09 < Whisller> pff
21:09 < Strzalek> You told the same with sf
21:09 < Strzalek> ;P
21:09 < Strzalek> *about :P
21:09 < _cheerios> pfft, Doctrine is nothing!
21:10 < Strzalek> Ok. Ciao guys ;P
21:10 < Whisller> And I don't change my judgment :P
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21:10 < Whisller> _cheerios: why?
21:10 < _cheerios> because i'm making my own to replace it :)
21:10 < Whisller> hehe
21:10 < Whisller> also with active records?
21:14 < _cheerios> you could call it that, yep
21:20 -!- russh [n=russh@ip-81-1-90-78.cust.homechoice.net] has joined #agavi
21:22 < _cheerios> you'll see hot it plays out if i just get it finished anytime soon.
21:22 < _cheerios> lately after work it feels like it's midnight already :|
21:22 -!- JanK__ [n=JanK_@muedsl-82-207-245-027.citykom.de] has quit []
21:23 < Whisller> Btw http://serwisy.gazeta.pl/motocykle/51,56426,3702428.html?i=0 what do you think :] I must make driver licence and I want buy this  motorbike :]
21:24 < Whisller> heh I also last time dont have a free time. I goes from work, eat somethimes playing in COD4 and sleep
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21:26 < _cheerios> im into public transportation. :)
21:26 < Whisller> ahh this bike is beautiful
21:27 < Whisller> _cheerios: I too but this tick me off
21:27 -!- MrJeep [n=jpdery@modemcable051.81-37-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit []
21:28 < Whisller> I always want have a bike :) Be nearer with nature ;)
21:29 -!- saracen_ [n=saracen@91.84.44.214] has quit ["Leaving"]
21:29 < _cheerios> would you listen to this while riding? http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=GI3j5ZRWFHw
21:30 < _cheerios> im such a bad driver that when i do drive, i appreciate the comfort of a good car :)
21:30 < Whisller> I didn't hear this :>
21:30 < Whisller> hmm nice girls :D
21:31 < Whisller> ahh nice girls + nice cars :D
21:32 < Whisller> I have a hope when I'll buy bike sales add little plugin...nice girl back seat ;)
21:33 < Whisller> *at
21:33 < _cheerios> why the bike? just get fashion advice from mikeseth.
21:35 < Whisller> why bike? I don't know, it's small only 2m it fast, it isn't cheap in use but hmm it's cool :D
21:35 < Whisller> _cheerios: mikeseth has bike?
21:36 < _cheerios> no, but if you dress like mike, you need no bike.
21:36 < pookey> MikeSeth: that's one hell of a rant :P
21:36 < _cheerios> damn. that rhymes.
21:38 < pookey> it's ok to rhyme, it's not a crime, but if you break MVC, you'll be doin' the time ..  apparently :)
21:39  * pookey sighs
21:39 < pookey> perhaps I should becme a rapper instaed :)
21:39 < _cheerios> lol
21:41 < Whisller> rapper instaed what is it :>
21:41 < pookey> it's an extra speshal person
21:43 -!- saracen [n=saracen@91.84.44.214] has joined #agavi
21:44 < _cheerios> http://www2.warnerbros.com/madmagazine/files/onthestands/ots_439/images/bling.jpg
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22:10 < Fastly> hey guys, does anyone here know why the follow error might have occured? 
22:10 < Fastly> 			Unable to open PDO connection [wrapped: SQLSTATE[HY000] [2002] Can't connect to local MySQL server through socket '' (111)]
22:10 < Fastly> PDO is installed and other projects are working. I'm using propel.
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22:12 < _cheerios> are they using the same db? i got that when mysql was down.
22:13 < Fastly> no, i changed the db to test before going live
22:14 < _cheerios> v-dogg, iirc you had this problem some weeks ago? 
22:15 < Fastly> and updated, databases.xml, runtime-conf.xml and build.properties and rebuild the propel classes
22:16 < Fastly> the agavi cache is also being refreshed since i'm bootstrapping development
22:17 < Fastly> i'm using the latest agavi and propel.... also managed to rebuild another propel project using propel-gen
22:17 < Fastly> and they're working
22:19 < pookey> I've had that problem before too
22:20 < _cheerios> reading into the error msg, socket '' would imply propel settings are not read prope(r)ly
22:21 -!- Whisller [n=Miranda@chello089076213203.chello.pl] has joined #agavi
22:21 < Whisller> http://pl.youtube.com/watch?v=NPjsBsz4trk
22:21 < Whisller> :)
22:25 < Fastly> propel-gen is establishing a connection an building the propel classes
22:26 < Fastly> so i guess the settings in runtime-conf.xml or databases.xml are wrong...
22:33 < Wombert> wrong settings, yes
22:34 < Wombert> maybe default socket in php.ini or whatever
22:34 < Wombert> solved that libxml problem, Fastly?
22:36 < Fastly> had real problems getting a new version of libxml to compile and work on the server (rhel4)
22:36 < Fastly> but did just try the suggestion sent to the user list 
22:36 < Fastly> ...of clearing the cache and it worked a treat :-)
22:37 < Wombert> cool
22:38 < Fastly> but, unfortunately rather than working i'm now facing another obscure problem
22:38 < Fastly> nice to have a hurdle out of the way for now though :-)
22:39 < Whisller> Maybe you will be know, why it doesn;t work in IE7 http://pastebin.ca/926934
22:47 < Fastly> these are the current config files: http://pastebin.ca/926961
22:53 < Wombert> guise
22:53 < Wombert> anything sample app or code templates need
23:01 < Fastly> any ideas?
23:02 < MikeSeth> umm sup guys
23:03 -!- _cheerios [n=jacklo@hkibrasgw1-feaedd00-249.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit ["FOR GREAT JUSTICE"]
23:03 < Wombert> improving code templates and sample app a bit
23:03 < Wombert> fucking boring
23:09 < Wombert> oooooh this makes me angry
23:10 < Fastly> the stacktrace is at http://beta.cyance.com 
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23:22 < Fastly> ahhh got it... :-)
23:22 < Fastly> <dsn>mysql:unix_socket=/var/lib/mysql/mysql.sock;host=localhost;dbname=cyancemulti</dsn>
23:22 < Fastly> that's runtime-conf.xml - didn't have the unix_socket.... 
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23:45 < Fastly> goodnight guys
23:45 -!- Fastly [n=fasfsa@81-86-33-27.dsl.pipex.com] has quit []
23:50 < Wombert> wtf
23:50 < Wombert> no weather website works
23:51 < MikeSeth> oh noes weather is offline ;>
23:52 < MikeSeth> fucking fuck jquery leaks tits
23:53 < Wombert> omg MikeSeth 
23:53 < Wombert> I want to kill myself
23:53 < Wombert> this code templates lala stuff is so annoying
23:54 < MikeSeth> whatcha talking about
23:54 < Wombert> the list of million things I'd much rather do includes eating printed-out code igniter source code
23:55 < MikeSeth> mahahaha
23:57 < Wombert> oh man I so desperately want to finish this before going to zZzZzZ so it doesn't ruin my day tomorrow
23:57 < Wombert> (or, actually, today, meh, 1am)
23:57  * Wombert smacks impl 
23:57 < Wombert> and you, sir?
23:58 < Wombert> does www.weather.com work for anyone
23:58 < Wombert> www.dwd.de
23:58 < Wombert> www.wetter.de
23:58 < Wombert> www.wetter.com
23:58 < Wombert> ?
23:58 < Wombert> none loads for me. smells like a conspiracy
23:59 < MikeSeth> wtf weather.com is down
23:59 < MikeSeth> well not down
23:59 < MikeSeth> but very slow
23:59 < MikeSeth> in fact all intl traffic is slow
23:59 < MikeSeth> o no wait i are fail
--- Day changed Tue Mar 04 2008
00:00 < MikeSeth> its ok
00:02  * impl prods Wombert with a spoon
00:04 < Wombert> AUA
00:05 -!- nfq [n=nfq@84-72-196-213.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #agavi
00:06 < impl> What now?
00:06 < impl> "Aua is a village within American Samoa." :D
00:07 < Wombert> lawl
00:07 < Wombert> <:
00:07 < Wombert> nothing
00:07 < Wombert> well if you have time
00:07 < Wombert> go over the requirements list google has
00:07 < Wombert> and add anything simple you can do
00:08 < impl> aye. I've got to write up two physics labs tonight but I'll most definitely take a look tomorrow afternoon if that works for you
00:10 < Wombert> oh absolutely
00:23 < Wombert> this is fucking depressing
00:23 < Wombert> how can you possibly enjoy this, impl 
00:33 < impl> Wombert: What, the build system?
00:33 < impl> Well, I hit that property dead-end a few days ago and I figured out a brilliant solution yet
00:33 < impl> but I will!
00:39 -!- kaos|work_ [n=dominik@xdsl-87-79-60-189.netcologne.de] has quit []
00:39 < impl> I haven't*
00:40 -!- nfq [n=nfq@84-72-196-213.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit []
00:49 < Wombert> impl: oh yes
00:49 < Wombert> fuckin pia
00:49 < Wombert> lets chat about your issue and the solution tomorrowish
00:49 < Wombert> I'm off
00:49 < Wombert> gnight
00:49 -!- Wombert [n=Wombert@BAEb3af.bae.pppool.de] has quit []
00:52 < Hamerr> good night people 
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02:35 < Neubian> so, what's the paste service of choice here ?
02:42 < Neubian> rafb.net it is . .   OK, so generating locale as part of my links was working fine, until I put this code ( http://rafb.net/p/tPvqj451.html ) in preceding the inks. . . now the links are sans the locale . . can anyone help me understand why?
02:45 < MrJeep> I use pastie
02:45 < MrJeep> hum
02:45 < MrJeep> ah
02:46 < MrJeep> try gen(null, array(), array('locale...
02:46 < MrJeep> or null, null
02:46 < MrJeep> unless the locale is a url parameter
02:46 < MrJeep> and it's been set in routes.xml
03:16 < Neubian> it is a url parameter set in routing.xml
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03:48 < Neubian> still stumped on this . . . but have to get to bed
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07:20 < _cheerios> huomenta
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07:38 < Wombert> morning
07:38 < Wombert> omg
07:38 < Wombert> huomenta
07:38 < Wombert> <:
07:39 < Arme[N]> 11:08 < Wombert> huomenta
07:39 < Arme[N]> oops :P
07:39 < Arme[N]> huomenta
08:04 -!- E_mE[Stilgar] [n=jeramy@91.84.68.106] has joined #agavi
08:04 < E_mE[Stilgar]> huomenta
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08:08 < Whisller> good morning
08:14  * E_mE[Stilgar] ===> work!
08:30 -!- strzalek [n=chatzill@bxz186.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #agavi
08:30 < strzalek> Hi there
08:32 < Whisller> hi you ;p
08:41 < strzalek> Heheh
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08:56 < pookey> MikeSeth: ping
09:01 < pookey> MikeSeth: wondering if you mind if I publish your 'crazy guy' email? :)
09:02 < _cheerios> wikileaks
09:03 -!- Macen [n=leopard@host86-138-73-224.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has joined #agavi
09:06 < RossC0> Huomenta!
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09:13 < E_mE> hihi
09:15 < Whisller> I forgot name of icons package. There was tango icons and hmm how was name of second package... something like domdom...
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09:16 < Whisller> ahh famfamfam :D
09:17 < MikeSeth> pookey: no I don't, please do
09:17 < MikeSeth> also, huomenta all
09:17 < pookey> MikeSeth: I was about 30 seconds away from saving as draft pending your permission :)
09:18 < MikeSeth> pookey: I think I mentioned explicitly in it that I don't mind it being published
09:18 < E_mE> Whisller: famfamfam are great :D i use them at work :D
09:18 < pookey> you said you didn't mind it beinf forwarded, I didn't want to.... epxloit that permissino if you see what I mean
09:18 < MikeSeth> oh
09:18 < MikeSeth> this is what happens when you write tired
09:18 < pookey> I think....
09:18 < pookey> maybe i'm wrng
09:19 < pookey> MikeSeth: it's the longest mail I've had for a while :P
09:19 < MikeSeth> pookey: I hope now you can see why I consider Symfony and friends outrageous
09:19 < Whisller> E_mE: yes they are :)
09:19 < Whisller> *it
09:19 < Whisller> hmm no they 
09:19 < Whisller> was good
09:20 < pookey> MikeSeth: I'm afraid I did title it the 'crazy guy' email, but only because I find the title quite funny ;)
09:20 < E_mE> MikeSeth: what document is that?
09:21 < pookey> http://pookey.co.uk/blog/archives/43-phplondon08-the-crazy-guy-mail.html  that one
09:21 < pookey> oh, it striped me "'s from the url....
09:21 < E_mE> hehehe
09:21 < pookey> I didn't think of that.....  no intentions to insult there at all :)
09:22 < E_mE> jesus MikeSeth your work keyboard happy heheh :)
09:24 < RossC0> My gosh MikeSeth is famous or infamous!!
09:29 < _cheerios> presenters will ask in the future; "but will HE be there?" before agreeing to anything
09:29 < MikeSeth> haha
09:29 < MikeSeth> that's like my big ass cousin
09:29 < MikeSeth> when she was in school the other class would send people to check on her before a soccer game
09:30 < MikeSeth> "if she's on the gate, we're not playing"
09:31 -!- Mo [n=martinot@dialbs-088-079-085-107.static.arcor-ip.net] has joined #agavi
09:54 < E_mE> noice: Agavi also has very elegant routing so that a single controller function is available across all access methods, whether HTML, JSON, SOAP, XML-RPC or whatever. Makes CakePHP look very dumb.  :D
09:57 < trophaeum> i keep getn people tell me to use symfony and its just too painful to explain to them to go fuck themselves in a nice way :)
09:57 < trophaeum> i got told to use code ignitor yesterday too
09:57 < _cheerios> who are you talking to E_mE, and what's with the hate?
09:57 < Hamerr> who is making the coffee arroud here ?
09:59 < _cheerios> that would be who
10:00 < trophaeum> mmmm, coffee
10:00 < trophaeum> yes that sounds like a good idea!
10:00 -!- digitarald [n=Miranda@202.Red-83-50-119.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #agavi
10:00 < Hamerr> indeed :)
10:00 < Hamerr> good morning to all
10:00 < MikeSeth> trophaeum: show them the link pookey posted then
10:01 < MikeSeth> or the article on my blog
10:01 < trophaeum> MikeSeth, yea, that last 1 read really well actually
10:01 < trophaeum> i even gave it a stumble thumbs up
10:01 < digitarald> Huomenta!
10:03 < MikeSeth> mahahaah there is already some guy calling me an idiot
10:04 < E_mE> where?
10:05 < E_mE> _cheerios: its a quote from http://marcus.bointon.com/archives/54-PHPLondon08-follow-up.html
10:05 < trophaeum> klemen has a good comment ill give it that
10:05 -!- codecop [n=codecop@server.senoji.palanga.lm.lt] has quit ["Leaving"]
10:06 < E_mE> hahah
10:06 < Macen> where is Hawaii HI here? http://www.dharam.us/americas-map.JPG
10:06 < Macen> i thought it was cuba
10:06 < Macen> but that says the islands in the gulf is cuba not hawaii
10:07 < Macen> is it like, miniscule?
10:07 < E_mE> Macen: :/ do you seriously not know where hawaii is?
10:07 < Macen> why would i?
10:07 < Macen> i srsly don't
10:07 < Macen> and i srsly can't see it
10:09 < Macen> http://geology.com/state-map/maps/usa-map.jpg
10:09 < Macen> on there, it's huge
10:09 < Macen> so come on mr i know it all tell me where it is then
10:10 < E_mE> ill give you a clue, its in the pacific ocean
10:10 < Macen> not funny
10:10 < Wombert> LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
10:10 < Wombert> :>>>>
10:11 < E_mE> tickles Macen belly :)
10:11 < Wombert> Macen: mind you, alaska moves from time to time
10:11 < Wombert> at the time that map was made, it was sitting duck just south of arizona
10:13 < Macen> in between the two pronged fork of mexico?
10:13 < Macen> is it miniscule if drawn to scale?
10:13 < Wombert> LOL
10:13 < Wombert> LOL
10:13 < Wombert> LOL
10:13 < Wombert> LOL
10:13 < Wombert> omg sorry
10:13 < Wombert> this is too funny
10:13 < Macen> s'ok
10:13 < Wombert> look
10:13 < Macen> just tell :>
10:13 < Wombert> on that map
10:13 < Wombert> hawaii and alaska
10:13 < Macen> which??
10:13 < Wombert> you know where alaska is, right?
10:13 < Wombert> are just put there because they are too far away from the continental u.s.
10:14 < Wombert> and it is like that on almost any u.s. map
10:14 < Wombert> ...
10:14 < Macen> ohh
10:14 < Wombert> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Hawaii_Islands2.png
10:14  * Wombert shakes head
10:14 < Macen> well what a stupid place to put a country
10:14 < Macen> *state
10:14  * Macen leaves.
10:16 -!- Rendez [n=Rendez@84.77.245.235] has joined #agavi
10:17 < digitarald> ok, they link me
10:17 < E_mE> ah hay digitarald you back :)
10:18 < digitarald> but still ... *argh* ... they discuss the Taiwan/China problem in the autocompleter comments ...
10:19 < digitarald> http://www.ajaxdaddy.com/mootools-autocomplete.html
10:19 < digitarald> comments from angry Taiwaness and Chinese :D
10:20 < Rendez> hi there
10:20 < E_mE> you have a good holiday mr d =P
10:20 < Wombert> make it Republic of China and all is good
10:20 < digitarald> sure, great ... cold and rainy germany :)
10:20 < _cheerios> haha, that's funny
10:21 < Wombert> its not a problem really, just need to get it right :p
10:22 < digitarald> maybe they think that I wrote that country list myself
10:32 -!- digitarald [n=Miranda@202.Red-83-50-119.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit ["I'll come back ... digitarald.de"]
10:37 -!- digitarald [n=Miranda@202.Red-83-50-119.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #agavi
10:37 < digitarald> is there something like tumblr for bigger posts?
10:38 < digitarald> tumbling -> blogging
10:39 < _cheerios> pastebin
10:41 -!- kaos|work_ [n=dominik@dialbs-088-079-085-107.static.arcor-ip.net] has joined #agavi
10:43 < RossC0> digitarald: blogger, wordpress ?
10:43 < RossC0> ;p
10:43 < Macen> digitarald: you are the ajax daddy?
10:44 < E_mE> digitarald: Tequila ;)
10:44 < digitarald> i need something with api :)
10:45 < digitarald> blogger api seems to be nice
10:45 < digitarald> but tumblr with markdown allows also nice blog posts
10:46 < E_mE> digitarald: you can look at an example of what i created with the tumblr api
10:46 < E_mE> blog.emenetdev.co.uk
10:46 < _cheerios> as long as you dont have to ever use blogger, blogger might be an option...
10:47 < digitarald> I already have my new blog with tumblr for the blog and disqus for comments :)
10:47 < Rendez> Nice cat :D
10:47 < digitarald> Crazy guy mike ... nice mail :D
10:48 < E_mE> thats my parents cat :)
10:48 < digitarald> E_mE ... jq ... i'm ... getting depressive
10:49 < E_mE> well, i didnt want to
10:49 < E_mE> but i quited liked the dock
10:49 < digitarald> :D
10:49 < E_mE> and ive not encountered the problem that i can run jq and mootools side by side :(
10:49 < digitarald> http://digitarald.de/playground/lens.html
10:49 < E_mE> so i shall follow that link as if you read my mind ;)
10:49 < digitarald> u can run them side by side
10:49 < E_mE> oh, it was getting errors
10:50 < Rendez> Super smooth in Safari digi
10:50 < digitarald> safari makes every image resizing nice and smooth :)
10:51 < digitarald> FF3 too
10:51 < E_mE> digitarald: i shall be converting it to mootool at lunch ;)
10:51 < digitarald> ... http://digitarald.de/playground/fx.spinner.html
10:51 < digitarald> oh ... error
10:51 < digitarald> let me fix it ;)
10:52 < Rendez> You guys have heard about the IE8 stardard per default?
10:52 < Rendez> Such a nice new
10:52 < E_mE> ?
10:52 < Rendez> http://www.quirksmode.org/blog/archives/2008/03/ie_team_changes.html
10:53 < digitarald> E_mE ... http://digitarald.de/playground/fx.spinner.html
10:54 < E_mE> digitarald: thats pretty damn cool :D
10:54 < E_mE> digitarald: one improvement i think should be that wheel responce, make it more free flowing :)
10:54 < digitarald> first one should work with wheel
10:55 < E_mE> yea, but its incremental, not smooth
10:55 < E_mE> im just knit picking really =P so ignore me heh
10:56 < digitarald> I added the wheel code in 2min ... I know that it can be improved ;)
10:56 < Macen> that's some impressive js manipulation
10:56 < digitarald> a better carousel feeling
10:56 < Macen> hats off to you
10:56 < digitarald> and focus event for the highlighted element
10:56 < digitarald> but I wasn't bored enough to add that too ;)
10:57 < E_mE> :)
10:58 < digitarald> anybody uses agileagenda?
10:59 < Macen> nop
10:59 < Macen> but with skills like that, if you want me to learn it, i will ;>
10:59 < Macen> fairly impressive heh..
11:02 < _cheerios> digitarald, nice spinner
11:06 < RossC0> MikeSeth: I see you are getting comments on pookey's blog!  
11:07 < digitarald> the crazy agavi guys :D
11:07 < digitarald> comments from at least 2 symfony guys ...
11:07 < digitarald> more agavi guys need to comment ;)
11:10 < _cheerios> lol@useless flamewars
11:11 < digitarald> hey, they call Mike crazy *getshisnapalm*
11:12 < digitarald> *onlyfindsalighter*
11:16 < digitarald> btw .. I created agavi.tumblr ;)
11:21 < digitarald> more and more AIR apps with mootools :D
11:21 < RossC0> I commented
11:25 < digitarald> RossC0, do u really like that agileagenda?
11:26 < digitarald> GANTT isnt that agile
11:27 < digitarald> looks like planned, coded and designed from coders
11:33 < RossC0> digitarald: aint used it - but wanted to look at an air app
11:33 < RossC0> no air for linux :(
11:34 < RossC0> (11:26:23) digitarald: GANTT isnt that agile
11:34 < RossC0> lol
11:34 < RossC0> depends how you use it!!
11:36 < RossC0> also depends on what agile methodology you utilise - its just a tool for data representation
11:36 < digitarald> right, when I used gantt it didn't helped the cooperative game
11:36 < digitarald> only work
11:37 < RossC0> what methodology where use using when you used gantt?
11:37 < RossC0> I find that people here really like them
11:38 < RossC0> because it helps them plan x months in the future
11:38 < RossC0> and generally they have no relation at all to reality!!
11:39 < RossC0> its like planning for failure - because theres too much focus on delivering next month and no planning, iteration / feedback loop on the current months work
11:39 < _cheerios> agavi gantt: 2005-soon (documentation)
11:40 < RossC0> which is another thing I wont miss :D
11:40 < RossC0> _cheerios: :D
11:40 < RossC0> you gonna help in the documentation sprint?
11:41  * RossC0 will personally make sure you do!
11:41 < E_mE> RossC0: when is it taking place?
11:41 < _cheerios> when i get my orm done, i'll use it my agavi to do the cakephp 15min blog-tut
11:41 < _cheerios>  /s/it my/is +
11:41 -!- Whisller [n=Miranda@aaqx49.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Connection timed out]
11:41 < _cheerios> oh well.
11:41 < RossC0> E_mE dunno - I may start writing some stuff to help the preparation otherwise it'll slide!
11:41 < RossC0> -may +will
11:42 < _cheerios> but, that orm is still quite in the works. doing relations atm., and models havent been touched at all etc.
11:42 < _cheerios> digitarald, is there a JS GANTT tool? *hint*
11:43 < RossC0> zomg use divs with a length
11:43 < RossC0> wait hmm
11:44 < _cheerios> canvas, or summit :)
11:44 < RossC0> you could use: http://simile.mit.edu/timeline/
11:44 < digitarald> canvas with MooUI ;)
11:44 -!- Whisller [n=Miranda@eqg50.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #agavi
11:44 < digitarald> the presentation is not a problem
11:46 < Hamerr> damn i hate javascript 
11:47 < E_mE> Hamerr: use a framework like Mooooooootools or so, make it alot easier to sink into JS i found
11:47 < digitarald> Hamerr: Javascript can be fun ;)
11:47 < RossC0> Hamerr - use MooTools it helps make it fun
11:47 < _cheerios> hating javascript is like hating the web!
11:48 < RossC0> * or anyother javascript framework
11:48 < _cheerios> you politically correct, you
11:48 < digitarald> see Hamerr ... we all love js ... because of frameworks like MooTools :D
11:49 < digitarald> ... or every other framework u like, namespace or prototypal structured :)
11:49 -!- brasileiro [n=fdfdf@200-102-91-223.smace701.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has joined #agavi
11:50 < RossC0> _cheerios: yes I am (its a very british thing)!  Ask Wombert about my political correctness - it made him laugh!
11:51 < Hamerr> i`m alomost done.just needs some styles and its finished 
11:52 < digitarald> I need tumblr with code highlighting :/
11:52 < Hamerr> someone using IE ?
11:54 < v-dogg> is this the only way to check for 404 error: 
11:54 < v-dogg> if ($req->hasAttributeNamespace('org.agavi.controller.forwards.error_404')|| count($req->getAttribute('matched_routes', 'org.agavi.routing'))==0);
11:54 < Wombert> hah
11:54 < RossC0> digitarald: http://drnicwilliams.com/2007/03/08/syntax-highlighting-in-tumblr/
11:54 < Wombert> no v-dogg 
11:54 < Wombert> it depends
11:55 < digitarald> I can use my code twinkle ... but thats js based
11:55 < Wombert> the error_404 stuff is set internally when agavi cannot find the module/action
11:55 < RossC0> cool
11:55 < Wombert> whereas no matched routes _may_ mean that there was a 404
11:55 < Wombert> but not necessarily so; think an ajax route or an rss route that matched
11:55 < Wombert> so in your 404
11:55 < Wombert> if there is this forwards request attribute, then agavi could not find something internally
11:55 < Wombert> otherwise, no route matched
11:56 < Wombert> or do you need this outside the 404 action?
11:57 < v-dogg> I need to know wheter or not a page was found in user::shutdown so I'll just set a request attribute in error404Action
11:57 < v-dogg> or?
11:59 < Wombert> ah I see
11:59 < Wombert> yeah, I guess
12:09 < v-dogg> #"¤%&"!!
12:10 < v-dogg> every frigging time!
12:10 < v-dogg> every frigging time I modify my User I forget I have it in compile.xml
12:11 < shoan> anybody still using 0.10?
12:11 < Macen> yes
12:11 < shoan> with propel?
12:11 < Macen> no
12:12 < v-dogg> Macen: you use 0.10?
12:13 < Macen> ...
12:14 < v-dogg> have you been using agavi that long?-)
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12:24 < Wombert> There was a terrible heckler in this talk. Oh dear! He worked in the gambling and porn industry and accused the speakers of being criminals for calling their frameworks MVC. Very odd person.
12:24 < Wombert> xD
12:24 < v-dogg> ummm... :D
12:25 < digitarald> :-)))
12:25 < v-dogg> Oh dear! porn and gambling! lock him up and throw away the key, this guy is rotten to the core!
12:27 < RossC0> Wombert: url?
12:27 < Wombert> http://erushi.com/blog/?p=8
12:28 < Wombert> well, granted, telling the truth the way MikeSeth does certainly won't appeal to anyone :)
12:28 < Wombert> or, maybe, asking the right (but, to them, painful) questions
12:29 < Wombert> I had loved to give follow-up comments, but they finished the discussion after mike's last comment
12:29 < Wombert> also, he didn't call anyone a criminal; he just said that it's criminal to abuse MVC in such a way and make false promises to people
12:30 < RossC0> hehehe "sorry for the layout it’s straight from Word"
12:30 < Wombert> and really, all those folks saying "uuuh its a <blah> that says <blah> and inspired by MVC, so <blah> it does not claim to be a proper implementation of MVC" are splitting hairs on terminology
12:30 < RossC0> NOW thats criminal!
12:31 < digitarald> "A heckler at a talk about programming frameworks? Really; how sad and geeky could someone possibly get?! :-D Out of interest, why were you put of Symphony?"
12:31 < Wombert> the thing that counts is that marcus and nigel were impressed. and both know what they are talking about. I don't care about the fools who accept status quo and average quality for the sake of avoiding arguments.
12:32 < _cheerios> lol @ the comment on that article, Wombert 
12:32 < E_mE> do a search for phplondon08 and you can find fair few things :)
12:33 < RossC0> no one commented on my wise words
12:33 < digitarald> but the crazy guy mail has still more information than his slides ;)
12:33 < E_mE> RossC0: ?? where
12:33 < RossC0> on pookey's blog
12:33  * pookey sighs
12:33 < pookey> that's too long! :)
12:33 < v-dogg> http://pookey.co.uk/blog/archives/43-phplondon08-the-crazy-guy-mail.html
12:34 < pookey> MikeSeth just wrote a huge amount again
12:34 < E_mE> im about to add a comment on to pookeys too hehe
12:34 < E_mE> critising stefens comments
12:34 < pookey> agavi vs. the world! ;)
12:34 < Wombert> go
12:35 < RossC0> pookey: on your blog?
12:35 < pookey> I hope to have some time this weekend to look properly at agavi
12:35 < pookey> RossC0: yeah
12:35 < Wombert> so, pookey, when are you making the switch
12:35 < Wombert> ah this weekend
12:35 < Wombert> brilliant
12:35 < Wombert> :)
12:35 < digitarald> congrats!
12:36 < pookey> Wombert: I have a very open mind when it comes to this sort of thing, I don't beleive there's 1 solution at all, you can only better yourself by studing the other options... so, I might not make a switch to agavi, but I'll atleast learn something from itt I'm sure :)
12:38 < Wombert> haven't you recently worked with symfony, digitarald?
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12:38 < digitarald> yes ... in a big project
12:38 < RossC0> pookey: wise
12:38 < RossC0> MikeSeth: like it :D
12:40 < pookey> it's somewhat a good sign of avagi that I recognise a significant number of people in here :)
12:41 -!- JanK_ [n=JanK_@muedsl-82-207-245-027.citykom.de] has joined #agavi
12:41 < digitarald> I'll never use it again ... the only advantage I see is the Crud/Scaffolding ... but the API is full of crude methods and helpers to compensate missing core methods
12:41 < digitarald> so ... agavi feels so much better, everything has its correct place and is easy to find
12:42 < pookey> sf1.1 decouples a lot of the core components that were kinda a mess of dependencies in sf1.0  - but essentially the concepts are the same
12:43 < E_mE> digitarald: i agree, everything is nicely seperated in agavi.. its clean, once you learn what part is for what it make so much sense :D
12:43 < digitarald> u can't even compare the routing from symfony and agavi ... its so much profitably
12:43 < pookey> digitarald: routing has had a significant update in sf1.1
12:45 < digitarald> its also the missing view layer
12:45 < MikeSeth> pookey: you might wanna reduce the throttling limit on comments in your blog
12:45 < digitarald> ajax actions :/
12:45 < pookey> MikeSeth: yeah, it's annoying and stupid, I'll see if I can figure that out
12:45 < pookey> MikeSeth: oh, that was easy - done :)
12:45 < pookey> MikeSeth: thanks
12:48 < pookey> 'call Cake et al applications MVC is the same as calling rape a date.'
12:48 < pookey> I like that line ;)
12:48 < v-dogg> did symfony remove the view layer completely?
12:49 < v-dogg> I had forgot about that.. silly people 
12:49 < v-dogg> +ter
12:49 < v-dogg> *ten
12:49 < v-dogg> "#¤%"
12:50 < v-dogg> coffee. now. lots of it.
12:51 < RossC0> so MikeSeth you gonna reply to my comment?
12:51  * RossC0 bunkers down
12:52 < _cheerios> you're picking a fight with "crazy guy"? :)
12:52 < pookey> MikeSeth: I think that title might stick you know....
12:52 < pookey> I'm sure I've been nkown as worse ;)
12:52 < MikeSeth> haha
12:53 < E_mE> there we go i posted :D
12:53 < v-dogg> hey, krazy guy, join #agaviblog 
12:53 < MikeSeth> as long as im right
12:53 < MikeSeth> v-dogg: speaking of which
12:53 < MikeSeth> E_mE: pls can has svn creds for tequila? forgot em
12:54 < E_mE> not you too
12:54 < pookey> oh, good point - someone mentioned a good demo app for me to look at
12:54 < E_mE> sighs hehe
12:54 < pookey> can someone remind me, or give me access or whatever?
12:54 < MikeSeth> pookey: the blog engine is in initial stages of development
12:54 < RossC0> the sampleapp?
12:54 < pookey> MikeSeth: I'm nto sure it was the blog engine that someone emtnioned... a CMS maybe?
12:54 < MikeSeth> pookey: there's a sample app in the source tree but it doesnt do anything useful
12:54 < MikeSeth> pookey: oh v-dogg's CMS
12:54 < MikeSeth> v-dogg: poke!
12:54 < v-dogg> pokepoke
12:55 < v-dogg> my cms is not good
12:55 < pookey> MikeSeth: just give me SVN access to your companies project, it's fiiiine, I'm a good boy ;)
12:56 < v-dogg> our little blog project is going to be a kick-ass demo app but it's barely started
12:56 < MikeSeth> pookey: mahahaha
12:56 < pookey> v-dogg: is it public?
12:56 < pookey> the blog I mean, not the CMS
12:57 < MikeSeth> yeah
12:57 < v-dogg> it is but I'm not going to show it to you. the M-part is still a mess ;)
12:57 < MikeSeth> ;>
12:57 < pookey> well, appanrelty I'm used to a mess ;)
12:57 < _cheerios> the link is on the mailinglist
12:57 < MikeSeth> v-dogg: I hope I will have time soon to look over this
12:57 < v-dogg> _M_VC
12:57 < MikeSeth> I really need a good blog engine
12:57 < brasileiro> hehehehe
12:57 < MikeSeth> serendipity drives me nuts
12:57 < v-dogg> same here
12:57 < pookey> MikeSeth: yeah, I'm not a huge fan, it's 'good enough' though
12:57 < pookey> I'm not major blogger
12:58 < pookey> s/not/no/
12:58 < v-dogg> pookey: http://www.emenetdev.co.uk/repos/trunk/
12:58 < E_mE> tumblr :D  
12:58 < pookey> thank you v-dogg 
12:58 < pookey> right, added to my todo list now, it's offical :)
13:00 < v-dogg> pookey: but like I said, this is not a good example of a proper design. yet
13:01 < pookey> v-dogg: well, I won't be looking till the weekend... so you have 4 days ;)
13:01  * pookey grins
13:01 < v-dogg> MikeSeth: hear that? 
13:01 < v-dogg> :)
13:01  * E_mE locks him self away in the cubbard for 4 days ;)
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13:16 < SunboX6146> Hi, does someone know why sometimes agavi does'n show a page? Sometimes the page just stays "white". If i reload the page, it is shown again. All other php scripts on that server worked fine. Mostly this effekt happens, if i wait some seconds and than klick on a link (or do some other interaction). I've got no error, and the server returns "200 OK".
13:16 < pookey> SunboX6146: not using firefox under linux are you? :)
13:17 < SunboX6146> no, i'm using firefox under windows. But this effekt happens with other browsers too. The IE shows "page could not be displayed"
13:18 < pookey> ah, ok - I just used to have firefox randomly show white pages, it would fail miserably to render pages... really odd - a friend had it too
13:18 < _cheerios> SunboX6146, you wouldn't be using apache and recently updated it?
13:19 < SunboX6146> it's an server in a server farm. It uses SuSE 9.2 + Apache (don't know version)
13:21 < _cheerios> possibilities 1) one slave-db server is down, and you hit that one in some refresh 2) some apache bug (i hit an apache mod_rewrite bug pretty hard some months back, moved to lighttpd)
13:22 < SunboX6146> should i ask the provider to update apache?
13:22 < RossC0> SunboX6146: you'd need to see the headers that are returned with the response or do some tracing (outside the browser) to understand where the point of failure is
13:23 < RossC0> it might help
13:24 < SunboX6146> hm, k. The headers looking good. It sends 200 OK and correct data length aso
13:24 < SunboX6146> how do i tracing outside the browser?
13:24 < _cheerios> wget -S url
13:25 < SunboX6146> thx
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13:41 < trophaeum> v-dogg, if ur doin an agavi blog, count me in for helpin out a bit, im sick to death of wordpress
13:44 < Wombert> maybe check the logs, SunboX6146 
13:44 < Wombert> sounds like a segfault
13:46 < trophaeum> i 2nd wombert, seen that a million dammed times, normally i would get it when apc would have bugs
13:46 < Wombert> yes, for instance
13:46 < Wombert> or something in php crapping out
13:48 < trophaeum> ug, i hate mysql so much yet im using it so often *sigh* what happened to the days of propel and postgres for me?
13:48 < _cheerios>  <PHP> oh noes! im runnning PURE MVC as that "crazy guy" rambled :faint: </PHP
13:49 < _cheerios> nothing wrong with using mysql you hater!
13:49 < MikeSeth> what what what? ;>
13:49 < MikeSeth> SunboX6146: are you running fastcgi?
13:50 < SunboX6146> don't know. It's an virtual server in an server farm. But not a low budget-shared-system
13:51 < trophaeum> MikeSeth, if it was fastcgi and the ipc timeout in mod_fcgid was kicking in he'd get redirected to a 404 or 500 page (? forget)
13:52  * Macen *makes a slightly-weird-almost-stalker-like tribute to digitarald in the corner of #agavi*
13:52 < Macen> hihi
13:53 < MikeSeth> trophaeum: that's also a possibility
13:53 < digitarald> stalkers everywhere
13:55 < E_mE> pookey: your second from top when googling phplondon08 ;)
13:55 < pookey> E_mE: I was top yeterday :)
13:55 < pookey> it's fluctating a lot, I did some optimisatoin deliber\tly for ti
13:55 < digitarald> uh ... seo
13:55 < pookey> google picks up on new itmes on my blog within about 5 or 6 minutes somehow!
13:56 < pookey> it's not like there's anyhing useful on it!
13:56 < pookey> just some crazy guys ranting about stuff ;)
13:56 < digitarald> all these crazy agavi fools
13:56 < Macen> digitarald: i'd of imagined you don't like search engines ;)
13:57 < Macen> digitarald: don't worry we (i) produce text-copies for those nasty non-js-enabled search engines hah
13:57 < digitarald> "digitarald" had 50.000 hits ... now only 33.000 after their big reset ...
13:58 < Macen> heheh
13:58  * Macen licks digitarald's feet
13:58 < Macen> tasty
13:59 < Macen> brb
13:59 < E_mE> >:/
14:00 -!- Arme[N] is now known as Arme[0]
14:01 -!- Whisller [n=Miranda@aare104.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #agavi
14:02 < digitarald> maybe its easier to give kodus here :D http://www.ohloh.net/accounts/4603
14:03 < pookey> woo, I've just gone above rank 700!
14:03  * Macen coughs*1.2* ;p
14:04 < E_mE> fecking fire alarms :( brb
14:05 < E_mE> damn plumbers!
14:06 < digitarald> that new ohloh design ... so clean ... so web 1.5 :/
14:07 < digitarald> ok, it was the typical RoR design before
14:08 < kaos|work_> hm
14:08 -!- Whisller_ [n=Miranda@axk248.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #agavi
14:08 < kaos|work_> there's much movement on ohloh ... 
14:09 < kaos|work_> but yet they still didn't manage to make that repository listing properly
14:09 < kaos|work_> so you can ignore paths in your repos etc
14:09 < kaos|work_> :(
14:09 < digitarald> the design is too generic
14:09 < kaos|work_> it looks like a newspaper site to me
14:09 < digitarald> right, could be anything
14:11 < digitarald> oh, now I see why it looks generic, like a newspaper grid design ... blueprint
14:12 < Wombert> for fuck's sake
14:13 < Wombert> http://www.ohloh.net/projects/5907
14:13 < Wombert> Note: 
14:13 < Wombert> The "Ohloh Summary" information is missing because we chose not to enlist any source code repositories until the Ohloh importer can handle complete repositories (e.g. including branches), as it's not possible to accurately compare projects or display activity information.
14:13 < Wombert> HOW FUCKING HARD TO UNDERSTAND IS THIS
14:14 < Wombert> what moron added the repos again
14:14 < Wombert> gah
14:14 < v-dogg> not me!
14:14 < kaos|work_> ah, i readded the license info btw wombert
14:15 < kaos|work_> seems they changed that
14:15 < kaos|work_> it was missing on the frontpage
14:16 < Wombert> splatch redid this on Feb 06
14:16 < Wombert> grrrrr
14:17 < RossC0> Wombert: is there a reason we are developing on a branch not trunk?
14:17 < RossC0> *we being you ;)
14:17 < RossC0> and kaos|work_ :D
14:18 < digitar